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Processed in 4.554565 secs); 03 Jan 2020 11:16:06 -0000 X-Envelope-From: okiddle@yahoo.co.uk X-Qmail-Scanner-Mime-Attachments: | X-Qmail-Scanner-Zip-Files: | Received-SPF: pass (ns1.primenet.com.au: SPF record at _spf.mail.yahoo.com designates 77.238.176.162 as permitted sender) X-YMail-OSG: ENr2Fr0VM1mVTwTaImgzo_JaLtlCvrCV1K8b8s1SWzruUqWgmDHbOGARJb9Gjvg LRhVTFNChbCnHNIB9uoBLyG6hBLIsy0B9YERLk8b2rhLPZeoh0pTwYstUxGxc4H60C__awII4Obm xp7wvpU7drw4Cb3jxC4VKF3KkeI9GYbhaeTbdIEDxqW3g5aNrKVzCXjMc.FqWkajtUGWlVvUHf2_ e58kVOty0M4bNhwGyj5bsWgZUfa5h7R1XdIITunf.oRzCvaqVGD6d2CqBVoABZTK74GtKSu0nnns b1lqN45xfoUwSM4OblowxuJuJta6M8akV6y32Nc0do2q85Y6ypopebrFTwaBpamdS8CvKR2CzQ9p kvec1MQ4CtRsvSOXhyAZ3frmN3aWtyqkZ24R3UhtGm47rpGudGczcjv2Ul1sX.i.TeDwhpZ7rVRw xECktSmS2bcFcG8diSxk4A08KoWTupgb0dvCNRQErIVchuhZRI7_R8JWb3.M.DTJYi7uBoXC0DjM 2GMxHGmJY7Qx7H9rd00Q8cLSiydETxMsG2rdZ9O6p8bIND7X_wFhqGCR7K1sHAyNX_ShIzf70gJN UFx67c_UsfzRn9okClLPHzf7u03f4caELz6.UGT9Rl1fs4NVCt_DumhZGcHjkgLkj11ptXZvNMwA N_EbsSUib7ySr3USVOIy_7wLfMdxNuScuoPnDCFLUb4vHSeGvxZqRsVhPvwi_buSI4qJVd0SITF7 pcI4W_xoLQjZu1FY9XAzvRlAfJY6rr8C3PMFLoc1yZCy23Msqvr0HeIlZP1MVjYUzq0_jgLcINgH oFiQBOjIfnwyPB02MQKXVY5kjlZFTPvne_iYc5Z0Vt7hgSKSgvLXGwSQclawja2o4_Al4RcED0hr UeioiqXvinckepjIkM7uhpqksg1hW4NilTKh4QxvesGm9G33sm8_rU0AF6TdY5zjagXSzzezb2Ks TBcew.4bLtk.Q8vW6cDM.Dun696B8xxMYZItqeLb90WgkDB6B_3y6YzvCuc_tPctsIdyjITGOsPb RS1KMNC5ZJAUT2dj..R0htYhq9JFd.i7PC03P2nOCHa40MKgsS_CAiYKb020uYSQ5QESebuBnrt_ 2HcvujhxZE8i2wnTzb4V3hDb1_QYXa.u9aajVf6onAypQTHVyeed8cVCNhF6mW5T59F9pbxG_Yqw KWi616RTEky.Miw0SdM33t11cjhFAIGTQKc7cFIEtgcfkGFWRBYBMz6xpH_ZToj_HUl23QxXyNWw kbPnAParAU3P4j3oorUqihYMwei2MiunOkkcQhd8P0toD8dS6ZPovgWV6SFT2cPWlRUyqqi3vNfY uA1gRK05oqRTDz41KDsvyhIcETEaU2ZQB71aeTF5hCnI1Vxziktea_wKk_wmo2hPEGwi1U048R8Z v2zXXt3a3r.FXJC9iDMu1 cc: dana , Sebastian Gniazdowski , Daniel Shahaf , Zsh hackers list In-reply-to: From: Oliver Kiddle References: <63663202-4b1d-428a-b16b-5be1425e84ef@www.fastmail.com> <0C0C9775-59EE-4FBB-AB84-3E7FEF6E5024@dana.is> <186D63AE-2F2A-41C3-9E09-CEE0714E2B7F@dana.is> To: Bart Schaefer Subject: Re: Official plugin manager? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7378.1578050123.1@hydra> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 12:15:23 +0100 Message-ID: <7379-1578050123.754942@oZAF._NjJ.PSyK> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14873 hermes Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/1.8.0_181) Bart wrote: > It has been our long-standing practice to recommend that package > builders/installers do NOT create /etc/z* files, or make them minimal, > so as not to interfere with users own initialization files. Maybe > it's time to relax that, or at least to provide a suggested skeleton A packaged system-wide zshrc is not the same thing as a skeleton zshrc. The recommendation should stand for the former. A skeleton zshrc, meaning a file that is copied from, e.g. /etc/skel/.zshrc to a new user's home directory by useradd is not something I'd discourage. > zshrc -- which we could connect to zsh-newuser-install to be slurped > in without having to go through all the questions if you just want to > "feel lucky". I've never been especially fond of the newuser feature but that's mainly because of the periodic irritation of having to read how to quit it when using a blank account. If it discourages distributions from including skeleton files, then that isn't great. Perhaps it could just print a helpful message, autoload functions for invoking things like setup widgets and prompt theme selectors, do some minimal setup like enabling completion and then give you an actual prompt. For a setup widget, using zcurses and colour for something more visual and interactive might be more approachable. But I wouldn't want that invoked automatically. > I've been noodling with a default completion setup module for a while > (though haven't worked on it in months) and we could certainly do a > better job of exposing the prompt theme system since pretty prompts > apparently are what many people go looking at OMZ to find. We might also want to reconsider the actual themes. They all predate vcs_info and unicode. Meddling with PROMPT_CR and PROMPT_SP seems unhelpful while the state of TRANSIENT_RPROMPT is sooner an aspect of the actual prompt. The prompts do some nice things that are not obvious to a casual observer, e.g. getting signal names from the return status (clint/zefram) and the conditional newline (oliver). What's popular in the OMZ world is whatever looks cool even if you have to install modified fonts to make them work. As for an official plugin manager, I think the idea has merits. I brought the idea up in users/22179 but there was little enthusiasm then. And I had different problems in mind than those outlined by Sebastian: for all its popularity and multitudes of "contributors", OMZ has a quality problem. Contributions are largely forgotten once accepted because ownership is transferred. They don't make good use of autoloading, possibly run compinit more than once with changed $fpath and don't seem to encourage the use of things like add-zsh-hook. The plugin standard and documentation of it determines those things. Oliver