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In-Reply-To: <20220304131252.GB7687@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> References: <19afce8d-8efe-5d9b-2fce-e0cabbf6d768@disroot.org> <8cc569f1-106d-4495-96b4-bd3fd92d430a@www.fastmail.com> <20220304131252.GB7687@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> Message-ID: <7EC01F45-DDB2-4941-B576-8B560E7298A6@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----SHVHCVX8FPE6E9ZXYIAATB1JGLX9NS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Seq: 49809 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: ------SHVHCVX8FPE6E9ZXYIAATB1JGLX9NS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5 March 2022 12:12:52 am AEDT, Daniel Shahaf =20 wrote: >> If there's consensus that we don't want to use my minimal CSS, and >> that we do want to adapt fancy CSS from a compatibly licensed project > >I think that's a false dichotomy=2E "Not reinvent the wheel" and "Prefer >fancy to minimal" are not synonymous; rather, they are orthogonal=2E That >is: it's entirely possible to design fancy styling from scratch, as it >is to reuse someone else's minimal styling=2E Agreed=2E Sorry for the imprecise language on my part=2E On 5 March 2022 12:26:16 am AEDT, Daniel Shahaf wrote: >Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez wrote on Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 21:44:48 -0500: >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 7:12 PM, Bart Schaefer wrote: >> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:31 PM Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 5:37 PM, Axel Beckert wrote: >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 12:08:11AM +1100, David Wales wrote: >> >> >> max-width: 80ch; >> >> > >> >> > Please don't artificially restrict the width of text on websites >> >> >> >> Hard disagree=2E Legibility decreases with line length=2E >> > >> > Soft disagree=2E Setting width to 80 characters is no more necessary >> > than allowing it to be 100% of the viewport=2E The only time to use >> > character widths is with fixed-width fonts=2E Set margins, not width= s=2E >>=20 >> Agreed! I didn't mean to defend the specific CSS that was proffered=2E > >I'm confused=2E Didn't you just now post a link that explains why widths >should be set rather than margins? Quoting from there [with emphasis >removed]: > > There isn=E2=80=99t one margin size that will work for all web pages,= but > the core advice is the same as on the printed page=E2=80=94focus on l= ine > length=2E I'm not an expert in CSS, typography or even Zsh! However, I believe that = limiting the text width to a certain maximum number of characters is best f= or readability=2E In fact, another page of the same typography website sugg= ests that the maximum text width should be between 45-90 characters=2E[1] I'm not precious about which particular CSS should be used=2E I'm open to = reusing something from another project once this group has reached consensu= s on the desired style=2E However, in defence of the CSS ch unit for variab= le width fonts, I think it provides a very direct way of restricting the nu= mber of characters in a line=2E According to the MDN docs, the ch unit is e= qual to the width of the digit 0 in the current font=2E So, if we accept th= e premise that there should be no more than 90 characters in a line, then s= pecifying 90ch as max-width should be a pretty decent approximation, even i= f some lines have 88 characters and others 92 due to the variable width fon= t=2E I'm not sure how this could be easily achieved with margins=2E As for my specific choice to use 80ch, I wanted to minimise line length wi= thout cutting the edges off the code blocks=2E Looking at the Yodl source, = it looked to be hard wrapped to approximately 80 characters, so I hoped thi= s would be a good balance=2E However, the code blocks are monospaced, so 90= ch might be a safer max-width for the variable width body=2E I also included `overflow: auto` for the pre tag to ensure that any code b= locks longer than the max-width would get scroll bars=2E [1] https://practicaltypography=2Ecom/line-length=2Ehtml ------SHVHCVX8FPE6E9ZXYIAATB1JGLX9NS Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5 March 2022 12:12:52 am AEDT, Daniel Shahaf = <d=2Es@daniel=2Eshahaf=2Ename>
wrote:
>> If there's cons= ensus that we don't want to use my minimal CSS, and
>> that we do = want to adapt fancy CSS from a compatibly licensed project
>
>I= think that's a false dichotomy=2E "Not reinvent the wheel" and "Prefer
= >fancy to minimal" are not synonymous; rather, they are orthogonal=2E Th= at
>is: it's entirely possible to design fancy styling from scratch, = as it
>is to reuse someone else's minimal styling=2E

Agreed=2E= Sorry for the imprecise language on my part=2E


On 5 March 2022 = 12:26:16 am AEDT, Daniel Shahaf <d=2Es@daniel=2Eshahaf=2Ename> wrote:=
>Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez wrote on Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 21:44:48 -050= 0:
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 7:12 PM, Bart Schaefer wrote:
>= ;> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:31 PM Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez <larry= v@zsh=2Eorg> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Ma= r 3, 2022, at 5:37 PM, Axel Beckert wrote:
>> >> >
>= ;> >> > On Thu, Mar 03, 2022 at 12:08:11AM +1100, David Wales w= rote:
>> >> >> max-width: 80ch;
>> >&g= t; >
>> >> > Please don't artificially restrict the wi= dth of text on websites
>> >>
>> >> Hard disa= gree=2E Legibility decreases with line length=2E
>> >
>&= gt; > Soft disagree=2E Setting width to 80 characters is no more necess= ary
>> > than allowing it to be 100% of the viewport=2E The on= ly time to use
>> > character widths is with fixed-width fonts= =2E Set margins, not widths=2E
>>
>> Agreed! I didn't = mean to defend the specific CSS that was proffered=2E
>
>I'm co= nfused=2E Didn't you just now post a link that explains why widths
>= should be set rather than margins? Quoting from there [with emphasis
&g= t;removed]:
>
> There isn=E2=80=99t one margin size that wil= l work for all web pages, but
> the core advice is the same as on = the printed page=E2=80=94focus on line
> length=2E

I'm not = an expert in CSS, typography or even Zsh! However, I believe that limiting = the text width to a certain maximum number of characters is best for readab= ility=2E In fact, another page of the same typography website suggests that= the maximum text width should be between 45-90 characters=2E[1]

I'm= not precious about which particular CSS should be used=2E I'm open to reus= ing something from another project once this group has reached consensus on= the desired style=2E However, in defence of the CSS ch unit for variable w= idth fonts, I think it provides a very direct way of restricting the number= of characters in a line=2E According to the MDN docs, the ch unit is equal= to the width of the digit 0 in the current font=2E So, if we accept the pr= emise that there should be no more than 90 characters in a line, then speci= fying 90ch as max-width should be a pretty decent approximation, even if so= me lines have 88 characters and others 92 due to the variable width font=2E=
I'm not sure how this could be easily achieved with margins=2E

= As for my specific choice to use 80ch, I wanted to minimise line length wit= hout cutting the edges off the code blocks=2E Looking at the Yodl source, i= t looked to be hard wrapped to approximately 80 characters, so I hoped this= would be a good balance=2E However, the code blocks are monospaced, so 90c= h might be a safer max-width for the variable width body=2E

I also i= ncluded `overflow: auto` for the pre tag to ensure that any code blocks lon= ger than the max-width would get scroll bars=2E


[1] https://practicaltypog= raphy=2Ecom/line-length=2Ehtml

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