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[80.223.62.132]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h15sm1933431edb.74.2021.04.15.02.39.58 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Apr 2021 02:39:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Marlon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: [META] Tone of voice / Writing style in patch reviews (was Re: Patch bumping) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 12:39:57 +0300 References: <20210329171120.GA6044@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> <20210329181452.GB6044@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> <18618-1617324651.844569@tLsN.0hLE.FeTt> <2c44b17c-407d-449e-be2e-610db313c1d7@www.fastmail.com> <20210413123200.GI6819@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> To: Zsh hackers list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Seq: 48584 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Hi, all! On 13 Apr 2021, at 21:08, Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez = wrote: > On Apr 13, 2021, at 8:32 AM, Daniel Shahaf = wrote: >> Leaving #4 "considerably longer" would decrease temporal locality in = the >> patch authors' brains, would reap less "the project noticed my lack = of >> response" benefits (cf. >> = https://producingoss.com/en/managing-participants.html#delegation-followup= ), >> and would be more likely to find the patch author busy with other = things >> and unable to follow up and post a revised patch. >=20 > Good point. After writing workers/48583, I would like to add something to this that = I think is even more important for keeping new contributors motivated to = stay engaged (from the same resource as above): =46rom [Praise and = Criticism](https://producingoss.com/en/managing-participants.html#praise-a= nd-criticism): > An important feature of technical culture is that detailed, = dispassionate criticism is often taken as a kind of praise (as discussed = in the section called =E2=80=9CRecognizing Rudeness=E2=80=9D), because = of the implication that the recipient's work is worth the time required = to analyze it. However, both of those conditions =E2=80=94 detailed and = dispassionate =E2=80=94 must be met for this to be true. For example, if = someone makes a sloppy change to the code, it is useless (and actually = harmful) to follow up saying simply "That was sloppy." Sloppiness is = ultimately a characteristic of a person, not of their work, and it's = important to keep your reactions focused on the work. It's much more = effective to describe all the things wrong with the change, tactfully = and without malice. =46rom [Recognizing = Rudeness](https://producingoss.com/en/you-are-what-you-write.html#rudeness= ): > So what is rude? >=20 > By the same principle under which detailed technical criticism is a = form of flattery, failure to provide quality criticism can be a kind of = insult. I don't mean simply ignoring someone's work, be it a proposal, = code change, new ticket filing, or whatever. Unless you explicitly = promised a detailed reaction in advance, it's usually okay to simply not = react at all. People will assume you just didn't have time to say = anything. But if you do react, don't skimp: take the time to really = analyze things, provide concrete examples where appropriate, dig around = in the archives to find related posts from the past, etc. Or if you = don't have time to put in that kind of effort, but still need to write = some sort of brief response, then state the shortcoming openly in your = message ("I think there's a ticket filed for this, but unfortunately = didn't have time to search for it, sorry"). The main thing is to = recognize the existence of the cultural norm, either by fulfilling it or = by openly acknowledging that one has fallen short this time. Either way, = the norm is strengthened. But failing to meet that norm, while at the = same time not explaining why you failed to meet it, is like saying the = topic (and those participating in it) was not worth much of your time = =E2=80=94 that your time is more valuable than theirs. Better to show = that your time is valuable by being terse than by being lazy. I know I am new to this project, but I found Daniel's tone of = voice/writing style in workers/48571 quite rude, both on a personal = level and according to the definition above. Let=E2=80=99s not treat = each other like this, shall we? Just point out why and how you think I = should fix the mistakes I make, and I will be happy to oblige. But if = you neither explain _why_ what I did was wrong nor _how_ I should fix = it, then your feedback is neither constructive nor actionable. Finally, I would like to quote two points from [The 10 Commandments of = Egoless = Programming](https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-ten-commandments-of-egoless= -programming/): > 5. Treat people who know less than you with respect, deference, and = patience. Nontechnical people who deal with developers on a regular = basis almost universally hold the opinion that we are prima donnas at = best and crybabies at worst. Don't reinforce this stereotype with anger = and impatience. > [=E2=80=A6] > 10. Critique code instead of people =E2=80=93 be kind to the coder, = not to the code. As much as possible, make all of your comments positive = and oriented to improving the code. Kind regards, =E2=80=94Marlon PS: Look, I even fixed the indentation of my quote attribution lines for = you, Daniel, in this email. You can=E2=80=99t say I don=E2=80=99t = listen. ;)