From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20215 invoked from network); 21 May 2020 12:40:02 -0000 Received: from ns1.primenet.com.au (HELO primenet.com.au) (203.24.36.2) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 May 2020 12:40:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 24444 invoked by alias); 21 May 2020 12:39:53 -0000 Mailing-List: contact zsh-workers-help@zsh.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Id: Zsh Workers List List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: X-Seq: 45881 Received: (qmail 22980 invoked by uid 1010); 21 May 2020 12:39:52 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Diagnostics: from mail-ot1-f53.google.com by f.primenet.com.au (envelope-from , uid 7791) with qmail-scanner-2.11 (clamdscan: 0.102.3/25814. spamassassin: 3.4.4. 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Processed in 3.707897 secs); 21 May 2020 12:39:52 -0000 X-Envelope-From: rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com X-Qmail-Scanner-Mime-Attachments: | X-Qmail-Scanner-Zip-Files: | Received-SPF: pass (ns1.primenet.com.au: SPF record at _netblocks.google.com designates 209.85.210.53 as permitted sender) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=B1IT2DOH2bf1ZLcl9Rw/jGUh++jzHpdEMzU7CcJY4Yc=; b=b1W4KtjoN2gNr3glzXCe22KcNY5mLGlMUIDnAfmSM5TP3py/p8OsuFdz2PKoEiVjBW xiLRGCizofvyORgY7+PUEtThruzyB5cN6aNjgQHv5Efdgkvhq+eGDROGzhOZmywtRYyr o4Ilbefc3iiXrT1uQxNeuJrPKteIoWJe/p/rLiyZ7zW6xyOtUVohpGM8gvOKDyIIatyJ L2W2PQzXqx+0M62+ergdQY1UczkrgXoKUsbPyt/9KYUEhuJy5tj4yjcNzfXsanVysnfG oCJZDJYGp1HMJCya5vWjvsELGXOz4jWHvt5Vd9eudukTTN0sxQGmKvRvYJA/DXhwV8eq XAhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531z7Tp4T9FUWklsh2RbAeYlOn+yfDb+O2V4iy97hRFIh1HMayGG u/NsmGZvBZGBgs5xIRdEV0M5uAty+0cqYYpm6qQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzlYSyp6JJcPBHwDcK/sKO6pq/izP+V2/XIF4u3JI3PkKwMDASMvJpn+4IeN/ezVtZP5MSWT4SOqO/S/dy3co= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7751:: with SMTP id t17mr6638130otl.299.1590064755226; Thu, 21 May 2020 05:39:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rudi C Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 17:09:03 +0430 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension To: Mikael Magnusson Cc: Bart Schaefer , "zsh-workers@zsh.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e7be4b05a627ccfa" --000000000000e7be4b05a627ccfa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Still, that's just one example. I don't claim I have done statistical research on this, but my intuition is that better organization leads to increased productivity and decreased bikeshedding. Also, I don't know what regulars here use to manage their email, but I can tell you that using a mailing list is rather incompatible with modern, mainstream email clients. I personally use Telegram's Gmail bot as my main way of receiving emails, and it fails to format emails from mailing lists correctly. I think the fact that most people have switched to using Github's issue tracker (even some closed-source projects) should hint that there are good reasons for using a modern, web&mobile-friendly solution. As you know, Github has now released official clients for both the terminal and iOS. Of course, I don't know much about other issue trackers, and if there is a better option, then that's fine, too. What I don't grok (at all) is what advantages the mailing list is bringing to the table. Github issues can be received and replied to via email as well. I might be a young, inexperienced person, but I have no idea how to do basic things like searching through the past issues in the mailing list. (Do I use Google with a "site:" directive?) Even when finding an issue in the archive, all the conversation is scattered across so many pages, that it just doesn't compare to the sleek experience you get on Github. I mean, the only way I am keeping up with this issue I have opened myself is by having a pinned tab of https://www.zsh.org/mla/workers/2020/index.html on my Chrome, which I check regularly. And I am the kind of person who has 1000 lines of emacs config, 9 open tabs in iTerm at all times, the first of which is a tmux session that has three panes. (And I am a student currently who doesn't work, so all that is for personal use.) I take my notes on a plain-text system that uses git and personal scripts to search/manage them. I listen to music through a custom scraper/player CLI I wrote. I follow my readables through scripts that scrape rss, email, and websites, and package the results into EPUBs that get sent to my Kindle device. You get the idea. I think when I feel that the mailing list is a relic of the past that does not bode well in the mobile age, you should seriously consider that. The current system cannot be utilized effectively by probably more than 98% of developers. Googling for "how to use mailing list effectively" returns marketing bullshit. ... On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:53 PM Mikael Magnusson wrote: > On 5/21/20, Rudi C wrote: > > Considering this bug (or a very similar variant) was reported before and > > the issue just died a silent death, I think it's a good idea to create a > > Github repo for tracking zsh issues. Github issue tracker is a lot better > > than mailing lists, as things have a dichotomy of being open/closed, and > > can be labeled. It is harder for issues to die a silent death there. It > is > > also easier to contribute to that, and easier to unsubscribe (I don't > think > > one can unsubscribe from a mailing list post one participated in, as > people > > (wisely) use reply-all.). > > As a counterpoint to that, I give you > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734643 which has been > open for 8 years. Nobody cares about bugs more just because they are > "open" in some bug tracker. > > -- > Mikael Magnusson > --000000000000e7be4b05a627ccfa--