From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14120 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2021 00:09:55 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Feb 2021 00:09:55 -0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20200801; t=1613088595; b=k9ZPYakYi7B7fBAj4mSTEVyABEFvJuPWjqyJwKtg15yMgVMVgVm1bUmvJhpnKXSiQF4wKfhQHJ 4Ys01qvJBQW8Sjgb5KmK+1N7Uwzv9FklWyBrprn7Tw88i7BIM0icHhxKq8OISCwqkRnNATuwVa DPObM4rBK8MFQC1KOhlogkjB2w4dqJ2AXFxEi2PFZTT/nBtLQT4dZvO4RgEX9D6d/pShoZvOLR MP5/VVtsIHPsA9aGBXWPTWPjhsSDGOoEMcnpWg0goUxiE3LHiqwsen+c8El6a7FbiHK6n8tUqf Ck5PjltwgZLpY1VeNrvWWb4JtOVS7Xs9d8xMfuwSeL/XCA==; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; zsh.org; iprev=pass (mail-oi1-f182.google.com) smtp.remote-ip=209.85.167.182; dkim=pass header.d=brasslantern-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.a=rsa-sha256; dmarc=none header.from=brasslantern.com; arc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20200801; t=1613088595; bh=BMRya1kstk1fYPceVZEsx7xsY5nd+BpQZdUOjLCRmCE=; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Help: List-Id:Sender:Content-Type:Cc:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:From:In-Reply-To: References:MIME-Version:DKIM-Signature:DKIM-Signature; b=kNIq9m2OKrkFEffcfLpFNta1cRFFHFAN66b9Faoh89+BiqI2v1eX/d6DueDvZQ/1TLfHoLPVEV bbLssvPk1lg2p4ac1fwMGK2CIojbHAVI0StBhKQA2TLuXE8vWcIFm0dkOJ288pWEECdqKCZtjN /q2c8h729TuXYgh5ywuoPrOgr9+rHULmYS8sZfWcze4BKvwXqU7Ka4aQGRw4ZmNIyncGwkvr1T wKVUDPJq1cLotcLv0rlC0crj+mg+GvvZ8tZuLpESmvtC975zzvfZbJ1ujiYPp8HynI0iV2n7en BwmE80juqs0UOjof71yB82zUP84IN/aNKgEEXQnewFButA==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20200801; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:Content-Type:Cc:To:Subject:Message-ID :Date:From:In-Reply-To:References:MIME-Version:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=pmx53QVYXgwi7G5OFf1KQfPblgTiI30KBjHWkbJ85Mc=; b=SzZgjxglgoPtt5RAVu0EvFBc2c 7BdKf0EojmSIaVMwF+H4w3e7cx7o371noHWAmtcxTQXfGgYXGBVUFTQztDha5a58oo85ytGaPqgph h29xk+vv9Tw7dxmKhFZsdnsm4E/96d92SKARSsjAZNvmdBN7DBUXEZUHm+uzsodUOs8NhVIkywC5e QY5DUzjaO/8e+3PUsHXMYLnr0sjVMr1u+Efwsr8LbFIPiJMVr0Z0l7el+/CMqpSeiw7lC7tEnO3QB 52OsHsqvfB/8n/EiZabF8W16GJkMYOJeM7SvipOwb5QRnIdlAJ8+uCSk4CEjk4vQuF1fIlrITgUnA ZMWYen9A==; Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with local id 1lAM1s-0007rW-1f; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 00:09:48 +0000 Authentication-Results: zsh.org; iprev=pass (mail-oi1-f182.google.com) smtp.remote-ip=209.85.167.182; dkim=pass header.d=brasslantern-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.a=rsa-sha256; dmarc=none header.from=brasslantern.com; arc=none Received: from mail-oi1-f182.google.com ([209.85.167.182]:42691) by zero.zsh.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1lAM1T-0006tk-Vc; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 00:09:30 +0000 Received: by mail-oi1-f182.google.com with SMTP id u66so8196422oig.9 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:09:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brasslantern-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pmx53QVYXgwi7G5OFf1KQfPblgTiI30KBjHWkbJ85Mc=; b=eN5/edjazZkYCNv7yTj+gkukOuGopWk7zajO3xpPIG/ChGRW8t5P3xMSzMCt6FLxcK q8G7BwB1SGiekiA+ZyU6np+ITJxIBH8qjeblAUp8TbEnvSZIT0lnbci+WVVg572AUzCZ jpALPZenYLon6bX+WQEh7EELhgno6yW/7A2I/fA1qwS1DirEvD7ZIqrVQgi9AFIJRb0T uh7jgqIuGn9FwK2tWXVZh5HgNIYDIg9BpSjfAEh/yM9q9KIFB8/Ryx4XcDilFVcrknxr VysjeHD9fK9sKzCzpkhAOPwwkvxCj00UqbKpAG/Fl/as6uJhRlmP0qRrSpHsaqTMQgLR N0MQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pmx53QVYXgwi7G5OFf1KQfPblgTiI30KBjHWkbJ85Mc=; b=IkajcGn3//VCWRF7rDQKkLgBqTRtnEbjTj71nD/uf94VogDise3iyw6xrr4v8PGxvo 3XoHZMNzMMB5wiTwgQnTDr5pJWAAWvPjunTXG7whUYDYVMdbjDtyKwEwg1/6xLUXpBfn QHpgXziUAxl4K74LZhjEoJx0pGo+ZHdBarHNF6reDUBD8Uq3ep1eYtk8egttWZMm8ITH mBKjLPPndgz+teKMNAfA6JA95yt283sYFVbW4a6JoJNoPCm4534VWVs8Nau6U4YC23Vs vNd0xC/Y16pCXBXc9r4RuB1raGe7lh3jzIMPUKWssFKcfJ8qh4CP5Je5yRFN5ltJrYLO srzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532qAdEpv2eHy4/OoXxSjXT9ysKMnP0tAvLW4siOUcOiHqoFDlYV HY0EXyTr9Jqq/f8MULcI270koJwA0mrLoIJZS4UySw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzHH88OBB2ZyJisPBbh4hj55Vz1VZT7Ws1ybkL0lGjMSnsCCh/gd1pPopxK531riSS7bxDmuh5Jlve9JeUEZUk= X-Received: by 2002:aca:3b8b:: with SMTP id i133mr243111oia.132.1613088561971; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:09:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0102017778f35f33-a962e4d3-83e9-4d3b-a0d7-45701bb40b11-000000@eu-west-1.amazonses.com> <8BA25288-0FFB-4FF4-9799-541D6A3C52DA@dana.is> In-Reply-To: From: Bart Schaefer Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:09:10 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Rewrite of zsh-newuser-install To: Marlon Richert Cc: Zsh hackers list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Seq: 48005 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Catching up on some stuff from the past couple of days ... On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 12:18 AM Marlon Richert wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 3:42 AM Bart Schaefer wrote: > > > [...] application mode is exactly the opposite of how I want my shell > > behaving, unless I'm misinterpreting your code. > > If we don't put the terminal into application mode, then we cannot use > terminfo. I'm surprised we haven't heard from Roman about this, given the content of that reddit thread he linked back at the start of this. > > Don't mess with Ctrl-U. > > Why not? Control-U does backward-kill-line everywhere, except in Zsh. This is going to sound curmudgeonly (and it is), but the answer is because the standard tty driver (stty) doesn't have backward-kill-line. ^U is "kill" not "kill to the left". WORDCHARS='' bothers me for the same reason, I want ^W to do the same thing whether I'm at the shell prompt or typing to a dumb stdin with no built-in smart editor. But, this is just my opinion, I have no pretense to veto power here. > > I'm not sure I like your choices for Enter / Alt-Enter in menuselect, > > because it seems to presume that the most common case is to do > > menu-selection on the last word being entered for a command > > I didn't make any such assumption. I use menu selection quite at > random; mostly when I cannot get what I want at the top of the list by > typing. Can you please explain how you came to that conclusion and how > my choice of menuselect bindings would impact your case? OK, let me try to explain more fully. My most common usage is when I am unable to remember all the command-line options or subcommand phrases for commands such as "git". Thus, when I enter menu selection, it's rarely the case that once I have chosen something I want to immediately execute the command line; the majority of those options or phrases need more words to follow. For me, this is by far the most frequent situation. I'd be typing Alt-Enter (if that even works, on some keyboards it doesn't and I'd have to type ESC followed by Enter) constantly. It would make much more sense to me for the single unmodified keystroke to exit the selection but leave me at the command line, and the modified key to mean that the command is complete and should be executed immediately. The only time it would be obvious to me that I should instantly execute the command after selecting from the menu is when the word being selected is the only one remaining to form a complete command. That's usually the last word on the line, hence my presumption about the use case for which you made this choice of bindings.