From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: zsh-workers-return-43706-ml=inbox.vuxu.org@zsh.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_MED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from primenet.com.au (ns1.primenet.com.au [203.24.36.2]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 5b048a48 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 22:27:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 2331 invoked by alias); 17 Oct 2018 22:26:58 -0000 Mailing-List: contact zsh-workers-help@zsh.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Id: Zsh Workers List List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: X-Seq: 43706 Received: (qmail 24613 invoked by uid 1010); 17 Oct 2018 22:26:58 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Diagnostics: from mail-lj1-f195.google.com by f.primenet.com.au (envelope-from , uid 7791) with qmail-scanner-2.11 (clamdscan: 0.99.2/21882. spamassassin: 3.4.1. Clear:RC:0(209.85.208.195):SA:0(-1.9/5.0):. Processed in 2.489912 secs); 17 Oct 2018 22:26:58 -0000 X-Envelope-From: schaefer@brasslantern.com X-Qmail-Scanner-Mime-Attachments: | X-Qmail-Scanner-Zip-Files: | DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=brasslantern-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=8FZGVI8nyuiSzOI65ovG4VBITKvhQp+ptgD75TuKYFo=; b=pn3tGv1lqb8oomDPOZtjPt1tajaAXA+XXY/iy4PUw6qW9I7MLcrpd73zcxuoTrzWbw c0kD55ZfelRkPtp/3tOom+sswCfucvl/ahfnEFBvqAn2uim1FB45BOY6VXJduF6l3o3Z PsHtRy24GQG+aCyW56l7gbTGCzJPo4jMR6MyuTlWCTVq3AAF1m17AYyMPeSH3Qkwkk7c 6f9/SiHKN7Fkrppx+LQk5qSRk2o+5Au5Usvab+JriwMJzWJbYY0KhNzKK1qhBTlCUsPr bAgMjbSAFU1yGOMRKzVGW9No1jHJFJaH5GVpDNss0CcV5BQkUzpv+0euRs0reKVE0l7y ksSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=8FZGVI8nyuiSzOI65ovG4VBITKvhQp+ptgD75TuKYFo=; b=SLf9JHMda8LSsdfri2lO3A1y4sGHLGeuzIUwUSWX92hTQij2gskodlAlHPQ7USKy5q hTKHhz/QmxovXEJ8dm5jenlkHY9udJz+SC1v29+/V1rmwGwbGJIJncS6VjESep9pB9vv qDOa/DtlQMA4K9Nu0OpoLzjhnRIhWYeL5QRG6rGis6CCnm1ReUql0zxQZZLZGgKD5oVR +QZ13gDKQ7aLgGX9mfdzoDRnG1nCGXHvGsL8yX16XZGxyr2wVDjNabfk3vfNlMkDPoIn s8icv0OTlGftcV39vo1unVCzIsQ2Bx4PhyOHp5lj6q2AeWVRlgEbGkjHmX7fD/VcW9co j+Ug== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogjdKcQ+vdvyrUL8MqCVv0KzPNPNsKzqBWmXE4RVcpwJH7ianpF uXFxEzdUYwAFVvktxphA3q4r/AaCIWWMqU9I4/SURDMaxbdf5A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV6169Qvp0F8O8qJXD9rFdeBvTtRF2p85wWRW733eQ7eb/fLNx8vjvg8lLUimOxirUjVZ/gp5s83A7MX6cbqQgxs= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:52ca:: with SMTP id n71-v6mr17479143lje.54.1539815210249; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:26:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bart Schaefer Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:26:38 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] Clarify documentation of parameter-assignment behaviour To: "zsh-workers@zsh.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We need to come to some sort of decision on what we're accomplishing in the zsh doc. Historical context: Zsh was originally conceived as a way to migrate csh (later tcsh) users to a shell with a more well-defined syntax based on Bourne shell syntax. So originally the documentation assumed you knew how to use csh and the doc was mostly concerned with how zsh differed from that, not how shells work in general. Then it began to pick up features derived from reading the ksh documentation (because ksh itself was still closed-source and not freely available) so those had to be explained, too. Then as people began to migrate to zsh from bash and ksh, the doc had to explain how zsh differed from those (which revealed a whole lot of mis-interpretation of the ksh doc when trying to copy ksh functionality). Through all of this the underlying assumption was the reader had some shell background, and the zsh doc only had to explain how zsh was special. Now we're getting people who complain that the zsh doc doesn't cover all that previously-assumed background. As Peter said, "One of our big problems is people finding the existing documentation too thick to get through. We can go on making it wordier and harder to get through till the cows come home and it still won't make it a basic shell primer." Splitting doesn't happen on scalar assignment in any shell. It would break the prefix-assignment syntax (var=$value command args...) among other things. So this isn't a way in which zsh differs. There's little point in not applying this patch now that it's written, but it's philosophically similar to Sebastian's code patch that optimizes something the compiler ought to be able to optimize, and we're going to be up to our rafters in cows if we don't start leaving some of them out in the pasture.