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* Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
@ 2019-12-18 16:03 Glenn Travis
  2019-12-18 22:14 ` dana
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Travis @ 2019-12-18 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: zsh-workers

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 128 bytes --]

Howdy,
This appears to be a dead link. 
A workshop on Zsh by Larry P. Schrof. <http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2019-12-18 16:03 Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/ Glenn Travis
@ 2019-12-18 22:14 ` dana
  2019-12-19  9:34   ` Peter Stephenson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: dana @ 2019-12-18 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Glenn Travis; +Cc: Zsh Workers List

On 18 Dec 2019, at 10:03, Glenn Travis <travis.business37@comcast.net> wrote:
> This appears to be a dead link.
> A workshop on Zsh by Larry P. Schrof. <http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html>

I don't think that site has been updated in like 20 years. But if the
content's still useful, i could point the link to the Wayback Machine?

https://web.archive.org/web/20171107163856/https://www-s.acm.illinois.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html

dana


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2019-12-18 22:14 ` dana
@ 2019-12-19  9:34   ` Peter Stephenson
  2019-12-20  6:35     ` dana
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Peter Stephenson @ 2019-12-19  9:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: zsh-workers

On Wed, 2019-12-18 at 16:14 -0600, dana wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2019, at 10:03, Glenn Travis <travis.business37@comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > This appears to be a dead link.
> > A workshop on Zsh by Larry P. Schrof. <http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html>
> I don't think that site has been updated in like 20 years. But if the
> content's still useful, i could point the link to the Wayback Machine?
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20171107163856/https://www-s.acm.illinois.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html

Thanks for the research.

I guess we cover our bases by pointing at that and saying "this is very
old but if you're interested you can still look at the document
here..."?

pws


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2019-12-19  9:34   ` Peter Stephenson
@ 2019-12-20  6:35     ` dana
  2019-12-20 20:14       ` Daniel Shahaf
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: dana @ 2019-12-20  6:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Stephenson; +Cc: Zsh Workers List

On 19 Dec 2019, at 03:34, Peter Stephenson <p.stephenson@samsung.com> wrote:
> I guess we cover our bases by pointing at that and saying "this is very
> old but if you're interested you can still look at the document
> here..."?

That applies to all of these links, so maybe just something like this

(Nothing else seems to touch this file any more)

dana


diff --git a/Intro/index.html b/Intro/index.html
index 677b9f5..73d1386 100644
--- a/Intro/index.html
+++ b/Intro/index.html
@@ -23,8 +23,16 @@
 </td></tr>
 </table>
 
+<p>
+Please note that most of the following documents are very old and may not
+reflect the current state of zsh well. More up-to-date information can be
+found (in roughly descending order of update frequency) in the
+<a href="Doc">manual</a>, the <a href="FAQ">FAQ</a>, and the
+<a href="Guide">user's guide</a>.
+</p>
+
 <ul>
-<li><a href="http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html">
+<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20171107163856/https://www-s.acm.illinois.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html">
 A workshop on Zsh by Larry P. Schrof.</a>  This contains lots of
 information on the basic use of zsh; it's a good place to read about
 basic setup if the manual is too fustrating.
@@ -38,8 +46,7 @@ Introduction to ZSH</A><br>
 This is the HTML'ified introduction derived from the 
 <a href="ftp://a.gp.cs.cmu.edu/usr2/jch/zsh/intro.texi.gz">
 texinfo version</A> created by Jonathan Hardwick
-<I>&lt;jch@cs.cmu.edu&gt;</I>. Beware that it is pretty old, though,
-and may not reflect the current state of zsh well.
+<I>&lt;jch@cs.cmu.edu&gt;</I>.
 
 The <a href="intro.ps.gz">
 PostScript of Paul Falstad's introduction</A> is also available. The
@@ -51,7 +58,7 @@ site, or view it with an external PostScript viewer.
 <div align=right>
 <address>
 <a name=Signature href="../disclaimer.html">Disclaimer</a>
-Last modified: $Date: 2002/08/09 17:03:38 $
+Last modified: 2019-12-20
 </address>
 
 </body>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2019-12-20  6:35     ` dana
@ 2019-12-20 20:14       ` Daniel Shahaf
  2019-12-20 20:42         ` dana
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Shahaf @ 2019-12-20 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: zsh-workers

dana wrote on Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 00:35:18 -0600:
> +Please note that most of the following documents are very old and may not
> +reflect the current state of zsh well. More up-to-date information can be
> +found (in roughly descending order of update frequency) in the
> +<a href="Doc">manual</a>, the <a href="FAQ">FAQ</a>, and the
> +<a href="Guide">user's guide</a>.

The href attributes need leading slashes, else they'd be broken.

> +</p>
> +
>  <ul>
> -<li><a href="http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html">
> +<li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20171107163856/https://www-s.acm.illinois.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html">
>  A workshop on Zsh by Larry P. Schrof.</a>  This contains lots of

The workshop was written when version 3.1.5 was current.  That's 20+ years ago.
We do have the option of deleting the link entirely.  I hope there's
a more-recently-updated tutorial we can link to instead.

>  information on the basic use of zsh; it's a good place to read about
>  basic setup if the manual is too fustrating.
> @@ -38,8 +46,7 @@ Introduction to ZSH</A><br>
>  This is the HTML'ified introduction derived from the 
>  <a href="ftp://a.gp.cs.cmu.edu/usr2/jch/zsh/intro.texi.gz">
>  texinfo version</A> created by Jonathan Hardwick
> -<I>&lt;jch@cs.cmu.edu&gt;</I>. Beware that it is pretty old, though,
> -and may not reflect the current state of zsh well.
> +<I>&lt;jch@cs.cmu.edu&gt;</I>.

This link is also broken («wget: unable to resolve host address
‘a.gp.cs.cmu.edu’»), and in any case, when was it last updated?  We should
be linking to current documentation.

Cheers,

Daniel

>  The <a href="intro.ps.gz">
>  PostScript of Paul Falstad's introduction</A> is also available. The
> @@ -51,7 +58,7 @@ site, or view it with an external PostScript viewer.
>  <div align=right>
>  <address>
>  <a name=Signature href="../disclaimer.html">Disclaimer</a>
> -Last modified: $Date: 2002/08/09 17:03:38 $
> +Last modified: 2019-12-20
>  </address>
>  
>  </body>
> 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2019-12-20 20:14       ` Daniel Shahaf
@ 2019-12-20 20:42         ` dana
  2020-01-16  1:51           ` dana
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: dana @ 2019-12-20 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Shahaf; +Cc: Zsh Workers List

On 20 Dec 2019, at 14:14, Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> The href attributes need leading slashes, else they'd be broken.

Oops, copy/paste errors from the other links i guess. Thanks

On 20 Dec 2019, at 14:14, Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> The workshop was written when version 3.1.5 was current....
> This link is also broken («wget: unable to resolve host address
> ‘a.gp.cs.cmu.edu’»), and in any case, when was it last updated?  We should
> be linking to current documentation.

Yeah, the release script mentions that the texi file is no longer available,
so the HTML doesn't get updated. The PostScript version is generated from
intro.ms in the main repo, but, with one very small exception (workers/30430),
that file hasn't been touched in 20+ years either, so...

Like i said, they are *all* extremely out-of-date. Much of the basic stuff
still applies, but i don't think i'd personally use or recommend any of these
documents. Just thought we might err on the side of caution, as Peter
(basically) suggested. If there's a more recent document that can serve as an
introduction, we can use that, but i'm not aware of anything myself. Or, if
you guys prefer, we can just get rid of the entire page, idk

dana


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2019-12-20 20:42         ` dana
@ 2020-01-16  1:51           ` dana
  2020-01-16  4:34             ` Bart Schaefer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: dana @ 2020-01-16  1:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Shahaf; +Cc: Zsh Workers List

Daniel and i talked about this further, and we didn't see any particular
utility to any of the Introduction links outside of historical curiosity. All
of them are broken and/or 20+ years old. We thought we may as well just get
rid of them entirely.

This change removes the Introduction link from the front page, and, just in
case someone gets to it from Google or whatever, replaces the Introduction
index by a redirect to the manual.

Please let me know if anyone's actually invested in keeping the old links.

dana


diff --git a/Intro/index.html b/Intro/index.html
index 677b9f5..85f6ea8 100644
--- a/Intro/index.html
+++ b/Intro/index.html
@@ -1,58 +1,9 @@
 <html>
 <head>
-  <link rel="icon" href="../favicon.png" type="image/png">
-  <link rel="up" href="../">
-  <link rel="top" href="../">
-  <link rel="next" href="../Doc/">
-  <link rel="first" href="../Intro/">
-  <link rel="last" href="../Refcard/">
-  <link rev="made" href="mailto:zsh-workers@zsh.org">
-  <title>ZSH - Introduction</title>
+  <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0; url=/Doc/" />
 </head>
-
-<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
-
-<table width="100%">
-<tr><td>
-<a href="../"><img src="../Images/prev.png" alt="[prev]" width=30 height=30></a>
-<a href="../Doc/"><img src="../Images/next.png" alt="[next]" width=30 height=30></a>
-<a href="../"><img src="../Images/up.png" alt="[up]" width=30 height=30></a>
-<a href="../"><img src="../Images/top.png" alt="[top]" width=30 height=30></a>
-</td><td>
-<font size="+3" align=center><strong>Introduction to ZSH</strong></font>
-</td></tr>
-</table>
-
-<ul>
-<li><a href="http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/workshops/zsh/toc.html">
-A workshop on Zsh by Larry P. Schrof.</a>  This contains lots of
-information on the basic use of zsh; it's a good place to read about
-basic setup if the manual is too fustrating.
-
-<li> The UNIX FAQ has a
-<a href="http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/shell/shell-differences/">document
-on shell differences</a> which may tell you what you need.
-
-<li><a href="intro_toc.html">
-Introduction to ZSH</A><br>
-This is the HTML'ified introduction derived from the 
-<a href="ftp://a.gp.cs.cmu.edu/usr2/jch/zsh/intro.texi.gz">
-texinfo version</A> created by Jonathan Hardwick
-<I>&lt;jch@cs.cmu.edu&gt;</I>. Beware that it is pretty old, though,
-and may not reflect the current state of zsh well.
-
-The <a href="intro.ps.gz">
-PostScript of Paul Falstad's introduction</A> is also available. The
-latter is not hypertext, but you can download and print it at your
-site, or view it with an external PostScript viewer. 
-</ul>
-
-<hr>
-<div align=right>
-<address>
-<a name=Signature href="../disclaimer.html">Disclaimer</a>
-Last modified: $Date: 2002/08/09 17:03:38 $
-</address>
-
+<body>
+	Your browser should redirect you to the Z Shell Manual shortly. If not,
+	<a href="/Doc/">click here</a>.
 </body>
 </html>

diff --git a/index.html b/index.html
index d7b8e54..f9808fc 100644
--- a/index.html
+++ b/index.html
@@ -32,7 +32,6 @@
   <td>
     <ul>
     <font size="+1" color="#600000"><b>Documentation</b></font>
-    <li><a href="Intro/">Introduction</a></li>
     <li><a href="Doc/">Manual</a></li>
     <li><a href="Guide/">User-friendly user guide</a></li>
     <li><a href="Refcard/">Reference card</a></li>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/
  2020-01-16  1:51           ` dana
@ 2020-01-16  4:34             ` Bart Schaefer
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bart Schaefer @ 2020-01-16  4:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: dana; +Cc: Daniel Shahaf, Zsh Workers List

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 5:52 PM dana <dana@dana.is> wrote:
>
> Daniel and i talked about this further, and we didn't see any particular
> utility to any of the Introduction links outside of historical curiosity.

I for one am fine with having them removed.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-12-18 16:03 Dead Link on page http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Intro/ Glenn Travis
2019-12-18 22:14 ` dana
2019-12-19  9:34   ` Peter Stephenson
2019-12-20  6:35     ` dana
2019-12-20 20:14       ` Daniel Shahaf
2019-12-20 20:42         ` dana
2020-01-16  1:51           ` dana
2020-01-16  4:34             ` Bart Schaefer

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