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Processed in 3.424708 secs); 03 Jan 2020 02:44:12 -0000 X-Envelope-From: sgniazdowski@gmail.com X-Qmail-Scanner-Mime-Attachments: | X-Qmail-Scanner-Zip-Files: | Received-SPF: pass (ns1.primenet.com.au: SPF record at _netblocks.google.com designates 209.85.222.47 as permitted sender) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tFo+nHEbc8XtK+2vi+lSKupDH1E1/ZaF8yHwDi3EQgU=; b=BcEGfBXsv7CyNBJlYCMLuqcBEWNSabnyTcT8T4dYxYchRQsCd56HRlCiDiNDd7TAWs e5PJfc3vNgt3iRv1cDPLF8JqSKU4+iFi/Wmx7hr4Ny0dGVbs3vq++b9DVrxKVVxImlE4 0PNKBjoTvz50lN9O75PJC10r81I/kYJYh9zRFn/QUd5fwgoTGyIIXoDH+La3y5anaBoz pRE2/SkMzt6M84VkVV29l2dxthpRJ68FcWliIPpcz7EKfV7k26mzsLBR0Tr4y+3QVzMw j3z5VePznXfl79NyaB/xIg1/5yn6Uw1piGZZySWMxeAHjOHmbgzHSczQP54PnB9rti6u cY3A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUo9pzxxqktP9E7PUXq14fd0eMfhYFkxGuuFZ+h3pxw7YXFdbg3 P8I9qsg8F3MG9Xj3+wc0tw/QcFTzsYuWiHI/R0o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzPJVhSfOSfTcqLXLnFNWIagZtYVBsgpQBQqrhupObbCgOr+fI0/uvY9/V7gSBNYrrfmigFQQZPZjKxm15Eig0= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:65c1:: with SMTP id n1mr5495744uaq.28.1578019416135; Thu, 02 Jan 2020 18:43:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <63663202-4b1d-428a-b16b-5be1425e84ef@www.fastmail.com> <0C0C9775-59EE-4FBB-AB84-3E7FEF6E5024@dana.is> <186D63AE-2F2A-41C3-9E09-CEE0714E2B7F@dana.is> In-Reply-To: <186D63AE-2F2A-41C3-9E09-CEE0714E2B7F@dana.is> From: Sebastian Gniazdowski Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 03:43:27 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Official plugin manager? To: dana Cc: Daniel Shahaf , Zsh hackers list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 02:34, dana wrote: > > Is the problem you're trying to solve 'people don't know which plug-in ma= nager > to use' or 'people don't know how to configure zsh so they just install O= MZ'? > The one you're describing here is the former. To be able to configure Zsh people need a p-m (to be able to use the sourcables like @bindkeys, @history, etc. =E2=80=93 that would be doing the actual configuration). So it's not A vs. B, but A -> B, where A is "people need a p-m / sourcables" and B is "people are able to configure Zsh". > Once they *have* a plug-in > manager, they can install whatever they want, and they seem to want OMZ. = (It's > even the first example in the Antigen documentation...) Well OK, however, there is the obstacle of having a choice. I think that this is also promoting OMZ: "so many frameworks / p-m out there and it's so difficult to choose? well, I better stick to 1500 contributors-backed Oh My Zsh". > On 2 Jan 2020, at 18:25, Sebastian Gniazdowski w= rote: > > OK, however, the sourcables-backend to zsh-newuser-install is IMO > > needed first. Then the install function could offer to append: > > > > zsh-pm pick=3Dnodups.zsh param=3D'size -> 10000' @history > > > > to the zshrc. > > You've responded to me saying 'instead of providing fine control over the > profile set-up it could simply give them some good defaults' with 'OK, bu= t > first we need to add more complexity in order to provide finer control ov= er > the profile set-up' Well yes, because I suspect that there will be a rough time on establishing what the defaults are supposed to be. And also, the sourcables are a new method of providing the snippets with the defaults. With them, there could have been a few variants of each plugin like @bindkeys, which would ease the problem of establishing the defaults. > Also, your example command is about 20 characters longer, and significant= ly > harder to read or to transfer into a broader understanding of how the she= ll > configuration works, than just setting it the normal way. How would this > address the difficulty me and Roman described re: not understanding the > implications of the wizard? I thought about the @history / nodups.zsh to be something like: HISTFILE=3D${file:-~/.zhistory} HISTFILE=3D${~HISTFILE} HISTSIZE=3D${size:-10000} SAVEHIST=3D$HISTSIZE setopt hist_ignore_dups setopt inc_append_history hist_fcntl_lock # Default-off options setopt ${all+histi_gnore_all_dups} ${find+hist_find_no_dups} setopt ${space+hist_ignore_space} ${copy+hist_save_by_copy} setopt ${verify+hist_verify} ${clobber+hist_allow_clobber} # Default-on options setopt ${nolex-hist_lex_words} ${noblanks-histreduceblanks} These are not all history options considered. So the loading of the sourceable would have been: zsh-pm pick=3Dnodups.zsh @history zsh-pm pick=3Dnodups.zsh param'size -> 2000; file -> ~/.zhist' @history zsh-pm pick=3Dnodups.zsh param'copy; all; nolex' @history And this would allow elastic providing of defaults with an additional layer =E2=80=93 the sourceable file. Normally the file contents would have = to be hardcoded into the newuser install script (plus the not exactly solvable problem of the option modifiers). Here, only a few keywords will have to be remembered in the installer and then the sourceable could be freely edited. The example sourceable script shows also how difficult will it be to come up with the non-elastic default settings for history. --=20 Sebastian Gniazdowski News: https://twitter.com/ZdharmaI IRC: https://kiwiirc.com/client/chat.freenode.net:+6697/#zplugin Blog: http://zdharma.org