From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from primenet.com.au (ns1.primenet.com.au [203.24.36.2]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 74b66923 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 11:55:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 152 invoked by alias); 2 Jan 2020 11:55:48 -0000 Mailing-List: contact zsh-workers-help@zsh.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Id: Zsh Workers List List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: X-Seq: 45191 Received: (qmail 14172 invoked by uid 1010); 2 Jan 2020 11:55:48 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Diagnostics: from mail-vk1-f177.google.com by f.primenet.com.au (envelope-from , uid 7791) with qmail-scanner-2.11 (clamdscan: 0.102.1/25677. spamassassin: 3.4.2. Clear:RC:0(209.85.221.177):SA:0(-2.0/5.0):. Processed in 3.078211 secs); 02 Jan 2020 11:55:48 -0000 X-Envelope-From: sgniazdowski@gmail.com X-Qmail-Scanner-Mime-Attachments: | X-Qmail-Scanner-Zip-Files: | Received-SPF: pass (ns1.primenet.com.au: SPF record at _netblocks.google.com designates 209.85.221.177 as permitted sender) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XPi6WKiKxTYlA0x5m9JCzD9ORFclgimcjn8C6sEYiF0=; b=eApHGc9YbRRAB6JPFffraAgIOUQ9Tb1AeoV8mG59GwWuIVEY9TVQuFUwIaI4X7hWu4 EGm/0KQa6L5V8LvC7ZJKeFl9n/zai10WKpDbS6XuCUj7AndC/8nvmi4LioI/d/6z6yNs fIfu5oY/9rxAI8aweFjcOfOor/+gETkQbynI2T4u6oKaH4kxCRwD5h171KvTG9KcYAAQ o9aUypFgS3t++8y1WbiqapF0crrPLiAOmYQ379dxyew6fRsxKNsDTQjevNE9BxKZ+1mS OljPBOzSQyQDEvxuLRx4CIxT6uWpzJsrDSVKO7TZD1J7HpZywTkMfIZ4xegcnhd4GrHS ndCA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUMIe1lRXI6tARP7xu8ajG9Ri5hiK4lxZk2Hp61PnTU813GVwsI dm9+jqYyxvWwMo32ihR/XyLP1XRwHqJJpye7lX8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwRg72QrJUekZkYLgt75QCfJ3NBcY6NdpcGHgF56W+Io/WlvPltdz7hzXh6U7Y+k/NMGgVmT0sOM9kwVQYxgss= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:cec2:: with SMTP id e185mr46792040vkg.22.1577966112472; Thu, 02 Jan 2020 03:55:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <63663202-4b1d-428a-b16b-5be1425e84ef@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Sebastian Gniazdowski Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 12:55:04 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Official plugin manager? To: Daniel Shahaf Cc: Zsh hackers list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 at 12:37, Sebastian Gniazdowski wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 at 12:04, Daniel Shahaf wrote= : > > http://xyproblem.info/ > > > > "Write an official plugin manager" is a solution. You have identified > > several problems in your mail, so let's talk about those problems and > > consider all possible solutions to them (not only the one that you > > hardcoded into the subject line of this thread). > > Okay. I think that the one interesting point was the 3rd one. I think > that it harms Zshell's picture out there by making the following > thinking common: that you cannot use Zsh without loading a bloated > framework like Oh My Zsh. I've decided to slightly elaborate on this without jumping to the Y, i.e.: to the bundled p-m. I think that OMZ has a guilt of spreading of such thinking (that you cannot use Zsh without a framework that's bloated =E2=80=93 actually but al= so by the impression that is given by what's advertised: "(framework) with nearly 1,500 contributors", "includes 200+ optional plugins", etc.). It gives the impression that "if you load OMZ, then all Zsh complex configuration will be done for you" (by the code from the *1500* contributors...), which implies that the configuration is so complex that you cannot get a better outcome on your own, especially if you're a new user. This basically means that Zsh has to be put down under the layer of OMZ and best if untouched directly, but instead relying on "an auto-update tool so that makes it easy to keep up with the latest updates from the community". Hence the thinking-pattern problem. To address this public-image pressure from OMZ: - something has to be added to Zsh, - a simple uncover of it: it should allow easier configuration, - configuration often means: loading a theme and the needed functionality providers (i.e.: plugins), thus this converges to the bundled p-m solution. --=20 Sebastian Gniazdowski News: https://twitter.com/ZdharmaI IRC: https://kiwiirc.com/client/chat.freenode.net:+6697/#zplugin Blog: http://zdharma.org