From: Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
To: Peter Stephenson <p.w.stephenson@ntlworld.com>
Cc: Zsh hackers list <zsh-workers@zsh.org>
Subject: Re: Bug with unset variables
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:49:36 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAMP44s3iP+BOeeZs=0+-iWAZz3m2oN=QiYEOrKg4B36KTexfFQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <887944058.1348251.1605178076357@mail2.virginmedia.com>
On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 4:48 AM Peter Stephenson
<p.w.stephenson@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> With some trepidation, let me see if I can try and sum up.
>
> fn() {
> typeset foo
> # foo is regarded as set (in the sense "not unset") here.
> }
>
> Other shells would treat foo as unset at that point.
>
> This is a long standing feature of zsh
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
Never heard that one before.
> It is a bug when emulating other shells (although note that there
> are plenty of such bugs --- emulation is never complete). I
> said I thought we'd done something about this, but I don't see any
> evidence, so I was probably wrong. There is definitely scope for
> improvement.
Indeed, I've been looking at the code, and there doesn't seem to be
anything similar. It's making too many assumptions about the starting
state of a parameter.
> Given that all shells would treat $foo as an empty string in
> the context above, the practical impact is limited to a few
> edge cases --- granted that can be infuriating (and more)
> when you hit one, so I am not dismissing such cases. That's why
> this issue doesn't often come up despite its long-standing
> nature.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Perhaps a considerable amount of people have hit this issue, but they
haven't bothered to contact the mailing lists. Most people just make
it work on their code, and move on.
> For the same reason, that $foo will reliably substitute as
> an empty string, I don't see any *overriding* reason for
> the behaviour of other shells. That absolutely doesn't
> mean I see no arguments for that behaviour, all of
> which I think have now been rehearsed.
There is a difference between a variable that contains an empty
string, and an unset variable, this is an undeniable fact about the
shell language.
There is a reason why people use ${foo+set} instead of $foo when they
want to check if a variable is set, as opposed to empty.
The fact that most code doesn't care about the difference doesn't mean
there isn't some code that does.
Cheers.
--
Felipe Contreras
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-11-12 19:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-11-11 15:57 Felipe Contreras
2020-11-11 16:13 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-11 16:56 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-11 17:02 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-11 18:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-11 18:16 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-11 20:42 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-12 0:20 ` Mikael Magnusson
2020-11-12 1:10 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-12 8:45 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-12 10:47 ` Peter Stephenson
2020-11-12 18:48 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-12 19:49 ` Felipe Contreras [this message]
2020-11-12 18:46 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-12 19:10 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-12 21:08 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-13 8:51 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-14 0:52 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-14 5:41 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-16 19:41 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-16 20:22 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2020-11-17 20:28 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-18 22:45 ` Daniel Shahaf
2020-11-22 1:20 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-23 4:00 ` Daniel Shahaf
2020-11-23 6:18 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-19 2:59 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-22 1:50 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-17 20:54 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-22 1:49 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-23 6:48 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-23 7:26 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-23 20:26 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-23 23:39 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-24 0:52 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-25 8:46 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-27 15:44 ` Daniel Shahaf
2020-11-27 20:49 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-27 20:59 ` Daniel Shahaf
2020-11-27 21:33 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-27 23:37 ` Daniel Shahaf
2020-11-27 23:45 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-28 0:24 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-28 7:32 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-28 12:05 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-12 19:26 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-12 21:48 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-13 22:17 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-14 0:58 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-11 18:36 ` Bart Schaefer
2020-11-11 21:08 ` Felipe Contreras
2020-11-11 17:02 ` Peter Stephenson
2020-11-11 18:05 ` Felipe Contreras
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