From: Roman Perepelitsa <roman.perepelitsa@gmail.com>
To: Sebastian Gniazdowski <sgniazdowski@gmail.com>
Cc: Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name>,
Zsh hackers list <zsh-workers@zsh.org>
Subject: Re: A serious bug in execution – where to debug?
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:23:18 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAN=4vMrTHP5qtS0dJrLJKPc9M3K5DsLTAa78i+W7+Sy4F90YOw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKc7PVCo2kTSqgmChp_jL-+fAZ3ytUigRWGnNfMud_-tQyO=-g@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 3:30 AM Sebastian Gniazdowski
<sgniazdowski@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 at 00:39, Roman Perepelitsa
> <roman.perepelitsa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm on the fence on this issue. As long as I don't get too many bug
> > reports because of over-ambitious plugin managers, I'm fine.
>
> So Zplugin is considered an over-ambitious plugin manager by you? :)
I meant over-ambitious in the specific sense mentioned above --
advertising features that are not and cannot be implemented. There is
no way for users to tell whether unloading is safe to use zplugin to
unload X and what the consequences are if it isn't. Features whose
user-observable behavior cannot be described even in theory, and for
which an honest specification is tightly tied to their implementation
details, are over-ambitious. Saying that zplugin can unload arbitrary
code is inaccurate at best and deceptive at worst. What it can do is
unset parameters/functions/etc set by the code. Note how this refers
to the implementation and not the user-observable behavior. What the
user will actually see is unpredictable.
> Besides, isn't your prompt little
> over-ambitious too? ;) With the binary, background daemon? ;D
Spawning long-lived background processes that opt-out of job control
isn't uncommon among zsh themes and plugins. Powerline, p10k, p9k,
zinc, pure all do it. So does zplugin, I believe. The level of
daemonization and sharing differ: powerline detaches its child process
and shares it among multiple shells; p10k and everything else using
gitstatusd double-forks and creates a new session with setsid; pure
and zplugin leave their processes as children. Technical differences
in background process management make it impossible to implement clean
shutdown for these themes/plugins externally but they don't make them
over-ambitious. Powerline does what it claims to do -- give you a
prompt with lots of colors and ornaments. No leaky abstractions, no
deception.
Having said that, I have no illusions about the utility of my public
zsh code. If all zsh plugins and themes would disappear overnight, I
don't know if the world would be better or worse off. This ecosystem
feeds on customization addiction after all.
Roman.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-07-31 7:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-07-30 17:00 Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 17:05 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 17:41 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 17:55 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 18:12 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 18:16 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 18:22 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 18:53 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 19:23 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 19:34 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 19:41 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 19:59 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 20:08 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 20:38 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 18:27 ` Bart Schaefer
2019-07-30 18:46 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 21:02 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 21:38 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 21:45 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 21:54 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-30 22:11 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-30 22:18 ` Daniel Shahaf
2019-07-30 22:32 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-31 1:30 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-31 7:23 ` Roman Perepelitsa [this message]
2019-07-31 11:41 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-31 12:40 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-31 13:10 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-31 13:34 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-31 13:40 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-31 14:11 ` Roman Perepelitsa
2019-07-31 17:56 ` Sebastian Gniazdowski
2019-07-31 1:42 ` Bart Schaefer
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