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Tue, 27 Sep 2022 21:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.72.137] (unknown [136.50.213.220]) by iris.zentaur.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4McXdS1Gyjz3wZb; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 21:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 16:22:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.2.2 Subject: Re: The request of words matter updated Content-Language: en-US From: Clinton Bunch To: zsh-workers@zsh.org, Xiao Ling XL Chen , Kui K Zhang References: <6e0e440b-8e26-4a15-8f69-7b393aa6ff13@app.fastmail.com> <1142471274.1562947.1664268254401@mail.virginmedia.com> <9cf82892-e90a-4404-8b56-04b0046b9165@app.fastmail.com> <35413460-41af-a3a5-5144-a93c9d19f4ed@zentaur.org> In-Reply-To: <35413460-41af-a3a5-5144-a93c9d19f4ed@zentaur.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 220927-10, 9/27/2022), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Seq: 50675 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: On 9/27/2022 4:15 PM, Clinton Bunch wrote: > On 9/27/2022 3:54 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote: >> -1 on the patch because I don't believe people who disagree with the >> change feel comfortable saying so publicly. >> >> I will also point out that tracking the terms used by the formal=20 >> parameters >> in the callee's header files or documentation, as proposed upthread =E2= =80=94 is >> a clear, objective criterion; makes the terminology decisions Someone >> Else's Problem; makes the code easier to read; and involves less churn= . >> Without advocating for that particular solution or considering what >> downsides it may have, I do wish to say those properties thereof seem >> desirable. >> > We've been trying to rid ourselves of these words for twenty years in=20 > the IT industry.=C2=A0 They were used because they accurately describe = the=20 > relationship and at the dawn of Unix and the Internet, the emotional=20 > charge the words carry wasn't recognized. > > > For PTYs=C2=A0 I like the terms controller and subsidiary.=C2=A0 It see= ms to=20 > describe the relationship better than other suggestions.=C2=A0 The use = of=20 > superior and inferior as otherwhere suggested strike me as eventually=20 > running into the same problem of being emotionally charged. > I will also point out that making it "Somebody Else's Problem" Is a big=20 part of why we haven't successfully rid ourselves of these terms in over=20 two decades of realizing they were problematic. Let's not perpetuate the=20 problem.