From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6358 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2022 04:00:45 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Aug 2022 04:00:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:Content-Type:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Mime-Version:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=UFqfVzNG9NQuYPW55PClhfEOX4N8g1a2y3xJvkUAnCg=; b=a2fPWtAMoHUutJNylPm6vuhSHi Q0MbwOv0KJxd2cw+18e2zn902JL2zGXbGRNkoiR21PGtLHVpYoCO8bvcT5KMp1Tu/hjzHyBXE99jO MAsEsnJMbgQ/4TOyOWnyJS6KCX78nz/DXWAYLeG8TidtyLK4Gl4phyp0afNn+oLbQf3hrj9+CYdLx A+W/2enNaZT9bF4oqXLuRnqA4FnjSW9NJplOFeINBx8YfrNzbaDcdHIZWwrgLdIDUh93OWhWY6b3X ZWOp7R37yxNMXccXfMh6gSfZ57aVMsRsixggrzS219AwOJmn+nMq7wPLNzTx81xlvqX4jyVCFE/KU ySgow/lA==; Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with local id 1oRmzz-0009hx-V2; Sat, 27 Aug 2022 04:00:44 +0000 Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1oRmuq-0009F2-2D; Sat, 27 Aug 2022 03:55:24 +0000 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F7127C0054; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 23:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap48 ([10.202.2.98]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 26 Aug 2022 23:55:22 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrvdejiedgjeekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtsehttdertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpefnrgif rhgvnhgtvggpgggvlhojiihquhgviicuoehlrghrrhihvhesiihshhdrohhrgheqnecugg ftrfgrthhtvghrnhepheffhfeujeehuefggfefueduffelvdelgeffueehvdevkeeugeei udfgleeufeetnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homheplhgrrhhrhihvodhmvghsmhhtphgruhhthhhpvghrshhonhgrlhhithihqdduudeh udekjeejtdegqdduudelvdejfeekhedqlhgrrhhrhihvpeepiihshhdrohhrghesfhgrsh htmhgrihhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iaa214773:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 125F531A0062; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 23:55:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.7.0-alpha0-841-g7899e99a45-fm-20220811.002-g7899e99a Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20220824043145.165779-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <20220824043145.165779-4-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <7779ec6b-10d5-410a-97da-5ec545cd6e1c@www.fastmail.com> <764a967b-86df-42bf-9242-22e9aeedfac6@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 23:52:48 -0400 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Lawrence_Vel=C3=A1zquez?= To: "Felipe Contreras" , "Bart Schaefer" Cc: zsh-workers@zsh.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 3/3] FAQ: sync newuser-install Content-Type: text/plain X-Seq: 50536 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: On Fri, Aug 26, 2022, at 11:18 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 7:31 PM Bart Schaefer wrote: >> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 5:23 PM Mikael Magnusson wrote: >> > >> > Besides that, the whole thing is way too >> > disruptive just for you to save 2 lines in your .zshrc. >> >> Pretty much exactly that. The argument FOR doing something has to be >> persuasive, rebutting specific counterpoints is only part of that. I >> haven't seen anyone yet supporting your position without modification. > > I'm not sure what you mean. The argument in favor is right there: it > potentially reduces the number of options required in the > configuration. We know what your argument is. Some of us just are not persuaded by it. > But if you are an 18yo kid who just installed zsh, a configuration of > 3 lines vs. a configuration of 1 line makes a difference of 67%. > That's quite a lot. It's not a lot. It's still two lines. Using an impressive-looking percentage doesn't change this. > A better experience for new users is just better. The > `zsh-newuser-install` script is a step in the right direction, but in > my view it shouldn't be necessary. Running zsh with no configuration > should do a decent job for most people by default. > > The ideal minimal configuration that does a good enough job for most > people should be *zero* lines. Even if we never get there, any line > saved is a step in the right direction. If we were starting from a blank slate, I'm sure more of us would be on board. As it is, there are tradeoffs regarding compatibility and interactions with existing functionality. You seem to not care about that and want "a better experience for new users" at all cost, but we don't have to agree. -- vq