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Sat, 27 Aug 2022 11:45:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.7.0-alpha0-841-g7899e99a45-fm-20220811.002-g7899e99a Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20220824043145.165779-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <20220824043145.165779-4-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <7779ec6b-10d5-410a-97da-5ec545cd6e1c@www.fastmail.com> <764a967b-86df-42bf-9242-22e9aeedfac6@www.fastmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2022 15:44:54 +0000 From: "Daniel Shahaf" To: zsh-workers@zsh.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 3/3] FAQ: sync newuser-install Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Seq: 50540 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez wrote on Sat, 27 Aug 2022 03:52 +00:00: > On Fri, Aug 26, 2022, at 11:18 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 7:31 PM Bart Schaefer wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 5:23 PM Mikael Magnusson = wrote: >>> > >>> > Besides that, the whole thing is way too >>> > disruptive just for you to save 2 lines in your .zshrc. >>> >>> Pretty much exactly that. The argument FOR doing something has to be >>> persuasive, rebutting specific counterpoints is only part of that. I >>> haven't seen anyone yet supporting your position without modificatio= n. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean. The argument in favor is right there: it >> potentially reduces the number of options required in the >> configuration. > > We know what your argument is. Some of us just are not persuaded > by it. > > >> But if you are an 18yo kid who just installed zsh, a configuration of >> 3 lines vs. a configuration of 1 line makes a difference of 67%. >> That's quite a lot. > > It's not a lot. It's still two lines. Using an impressive-looking > percentage doesn't change this. I think of it less as two more lines in the dotfile and more as five more minutes figuring things out on first use ("What's this XDG thing that page says I should set HISTFILE to?") and 15 more seconds typing the values in every time one installs zsh without access to their dotfil= es. Put differently: Do people who enable history usually care what file it'= s saved in? No? They why is that information a non-optional argument of the API? Cheers, Daniel >> A better experience for new users is just better. The >> `zsh-newuser-install` script is a step in the right direction, but in >> my view it shouldn't be necessary. Running zsh with no configuration >> should do a decent job for most people by default. >> >> The ideal minimal configuration that does a good enough job for most >> people should be *zero* lines. Even if we never get there, any line >> saved is a step in the right direction. > > If we were starting from a blank slate, I'm sure more of us would > be on board. As it is, there are tradeoffs regarding compatibility > and interactions with existing functionality. You seem to not care > about that and want "a better experience for new users" at all cost, > but we don't have to agree.