[9fans] /n/smtp

[9fans] /n/smtp

[forsyth]

boyd fell into the RFC trap by naming the service /n/smtp.
of course, smtp provides a few features that aren't captured
by that interface, both in the primary RFC and in the set of
derived ones.

rename it /chan/postoffice, do exactly the same thing, and it
should be fine.  in fact, `smtp' is too specific anyhow, since you
might be using another delivery method in the postoffice.
if you're a real masochist, it might be x.400 (or
whatever the correct x.number might be); i still fondly remember those
x.400/rfc822 gateways in the uk. infrastructure.

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Boyd Roberts]

From: <forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk>

> boyd fell into the RFC trap by naming the service /n/smtp.

thanks.  yes i should have called it something else:  /n/rfc822
or /chan/postoffice.

it's sendmail -t funtionality that i want; reading the
destinations out of the headers.  this does work.  it has
nothing to do with smtp until the message gets sent via
smtp and i never envisioned an MTA dumping messages into
it, just the user agent.

russ told me that it would serve no purpose, but i
'counter attacked' :-) importing it off the firewall.
a free proxy; code running on the the firewall with
9P/styx gluing it to wherever it's needed.

how many plan 9 programmers does it take to change a
lightbulb?  none, you just import one from somewhere
else :-)

if i could concentrate at work, i'd probably code
it.  that, is the impossible part: 32 in a open plan
office, 32 phones, 32+ mobiles.  by the time i've
'survived' the day i'm just too knackered to do
anything but veg out on the sofa, with 'coma' [my
sony vaio 505].

yesterday's brilliant achievement was:

    chmod 775 dir

even better than the day of:

    mkdir d1
    mkdir d2

seriously, i get paid to do that.  18 years of unix,
15 years of IP -- wasted.
 

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Russ Cox]

	russ told me that it would serve no purpose, but i
	'counter attacked' :-) importing it off the firewall.
	a free proxy; code running on the the firewall with
	9P/styx gluing it to wherever it's needed.

even after all this discussion,
i still don't think it serves any purpose.
the data only flows in one direction, and
only in one format.  file servers are good
for handling interactive resources or 
resources with complex presentations.
mail delivery is neither.

people have pointed out that it's like 
sendmail -t.  so have upas/marshal -t,
which i agree would be useful.

want to get the service from a firewall?
instead of marshal -t, do rx firewall marshal -t.

to me, it feels a lot more like a good
pipeline piece than a full-blown filesystem.

russ

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Boyd Roberts]

From: Russ Cox <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com>

> even after all this discussion,
> i still don't think it serves any purpose.

i understand what you're saying.  i just don't agree.

given i smash a template into sam with B and then
hand up 'f /n/postoffice' and with one mouse click
[write] in can send it.

for years i've been using an MH like mail user agent:

   com

   <creates template and then uses B>

   del

   <delivers it>

anyway, a difference of opinion, i can cope with that :-)

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Boyd Roberts]

> given i smash a template into sam with B ...

B is acredited to me for the unix sam, but it wasn't
my idea.  rob saw how i was using sam to send mail
via a mechanism that did a B via some god awful X11
thing.  as soon as he saw that he just said that
sam should have a named pipe for commands, thus B.

the idea was John J. Mackin's:

    http://perso.wanadoo.fr/shand/jjm/index.html

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Scott Schwartz]

> sam should have a named pipe for commands

Speaking of that... the diffs I just posted don't provide it.  Sam wants
to use plumbing now, and having Plan 9 in front of me saps my will to
code approximations for unix.

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Boyd Roberts]

> Speaking of that... the diffs I just posted don't provide it.  Sam wants
> to use plumbing now, and having Plan 9 in front of me saps my will to
> code approximations for unix.

the code is trivial.  50 lines?

i think it's in unix.c.

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[rob pike]

> sam should have a named pipe for commands

The code is adaptable, because there are a few diehards here that don't
use plumbing. B works for them since sam checks if plumbing is
available and if not, turns on the pipe stuff.  That should be trivial
to make work on Unix, since it always did.

On Boyd's point, plumbing is of course the evolution of B.

-rob

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Scott Schwartz]

Yes, if you use the old unix samterm, it continues to do what it always
did.

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Ozan Yigit]

you mention your vaio; can you get p9 to powerdown the vaio properly?
my 505 tr always hangs, have to power down by unplugging... not nice.

cheers...	oz

Re: [9fans] /n/smtp

[Boyd Roberts]

From: Ozan Yigit <oz@cs.yorku.ca>

> you mention your vaio; can you get p9 to powerdown the vaio properly?
> my 505 tr always hangs, have to power down by unplugging... not nice.

i've got an N505SN, still without plan 9 on it (USB floppy hell).
i've seen with '98 that you get the same type of problem.
i just leave it on :-)