[9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[andrey mirtchovski]

soliciting opinion -- how many of you would like to have the ability
to search through the text in a rio terminal?

i find the need mostly when browsing through large man pages.

would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded?

andrey

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Rob Pike]

> would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded?

i think so.

-rob

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Roman Shaposhnick]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 09:57:32PM -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Rob Pike wrote:
> 
> > > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded?
> > 
> > i think so.
> > 
> > -rob
> > 
> 
> how about doing it via the right mouse button? this will remove the
> 'New...' menu when right clicking in a terminal, and i admit myself always
> searching for a empty 'grey' area to click on when i want to open a new
> terminal, but it's a more drastical change so i omitted it originally...

  you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though,
  has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ?

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Nick Jamieson]

> i find the need mostly when browsing through large man pages.

#!/bin/rc

man $* >[2=1] | acme -c 1 '#d/0'

Nick

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Rob Pike wrote:

> > would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded?
> 
> i think so.
> 
> -rob
> 

how about doing it via the right mouse button? this will remove the
'New...' menu when right clicking in a terminal, and i admit myself always
searching for a empty 'grey' area to click on when i want to open a new
terminal, but it's a more drastical change so i omitted it originally...

andrey

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Roman Shaposhnick wrote:

>   you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though,
>   has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ?
> 

I'm not really considering taking out the "New|Resize|etc"... 

Note that sam already has 'look' in the middle button menu, so we won't
be setting a precedent. The text window has 6 entries in the menu, same
as a terminal, but the command window has 7 -- cut, paste, snarf, plumb,
look, <rio>, send...

andrey

ps: drastic? radical? nah, drastical!

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Ronald G. Minnich]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Roman Shaposhnick wrote:

>   you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though,
>   has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ?

depends on productively and what it means. But my 85-year-old dad loves 
his 5-button mouse. 

To each his own.

ron

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[lucio]

> soliciting opinion -- how many of you would like to have the ability
> to search through the text in a rio terminal?

I have certainly wanted to, frequently.  But it seems to me to be more
appropriate to solicit opinion on how to cause acme, rio and sam to
converge into a single, most likely customisable, desktop management
tool.  Not that I expect a single solution, but I'm sure a few
productive souls would run off with some of the ideas and return with
exciting new concepts.

Just my 2 cents' worth.  Plan 9 seems to encourage thinking outside
even its own box.

++L

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[a]

i'd love having Look in rio. i've made two or three half-hearted
passes at doing it myself over the last few years, but never
finished any of them.

my solution to it making the button 2 menu too croweded was to
remove the cut/snarf/paste options in favor of chording. in one
of my passes at Look, i had the menu changed (-cut/snarf/past,
+non-functional look) and i didn't look for the missing options
once.

but i realize that's a solution many here would hate. maybe
options for including sets of features?

the addition of plumb was, i think, quite noticable.
ア

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[matt]

> how many of you would like to have the ability to search through the text in a rio terminal?

I have oft wanted that, reproducing the output in acme so I can search it

> would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded?
you can get rid of cut, paste & snarf for me - I use chording :)

putting it on button 2 makes it inconsistent with 3 in Acme, I already get tripped up enough pressing escape in the shell to delete and having my activity screwed up when RAW goes off (usually when writing an email, luckily it doesn't get sent but you do have to kill the window and start again)

If one deletes a window with 3, and then middle clicks on another window to search, instinctively pressing 3 to repeat the search will kill that window as delete has become the default action for 3

thats that :)

m

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Charles Forsyth]

>> you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though,
>>  has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ?

probably: but i'd suppose that as the number of buttons increases, it's even
more important to have the actions be consistent across the whole interface,
so you have no need to think about it.

as another aside, buxton et al had one scheme that used two devices, one in each hand,
the non-dominant hand positioning a partly-transparent control, and the dominant
hand operating on the things beneath the control.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[boyd, rounin]

> would a 'look' option in the middle-button menu make it too crowded?

i suggested this to rob in 1992-1993 when 9term came out but
he said it would make the button 2 menu too long.  i added it
to 9term anyway and it was very useful; looking for 'close'
strings in log files was one use.

perhaps you could do some hack with the plumber?  but it
would be a hack and would not be general.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[boyd, rounin]

> how about doing it via the right mouse button? this will remove the
> 'New...' menu when right clicking in a terminal, ...

oh no.  that violates practice/principles that date from at least 1984:

    - button 1 for selection
    - button 2 for in window operations
    - button 3 for window manipulation

a consistent interface is a good thing.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[boyd, rounin]

>   you clearly need one of them keys-on-wheels devices. Seriously, though,
>   has someone *productively* used "mouses" with more than 3 buttons ?

nah, a morse key.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[boyd, rounin]

> you can get rid of cut, paste & snarf for me - I use chording :)

try and chord on a 2 button mousepad.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[rog]

> i suggested this to rob in 1992-1993 when 9term came out but
> he said it would make the button 2 menu too long.  i added it
> to 9term anyway and it was very useful; looking for 'close'
> strings in log files was one use.

what i tend to do in these circumstances is select all the text
in the rio window, click New in acme and paste it in there.

(that brings me to the thing i find most annoying in rio - i'll
drag down to the end of the window, chord cut and paste to
snarf it all... and it executes the entire snarf buffer!
(potentially really nasty, but mitigated by dumpfs...)
i started to have a look at fixing this once, but got bogged
down and haven't mustered the energy again.)

acme Edit in temporary windows for playing with log files
is a wonderful thing.

(actually, it's great in other ways too. for example, i tend to keep a large mailbox,
and in a /mail/fs/mbox/ window, i can do:
Edit ,x/^[0-9].*\n(	.*\n)*/g/\[9fans]/d
to restrict my view to non-9fans messages only.)

acme temporary, unlabeled, windows are great. it's a pity
they're not archived when acme is Dumped.

to add to the mouse button thing: if i had an extra mouse button,
i think i'd use it as a "search backwards" button in acme.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[matt]

perhaps one solution would be rio keeping shell windows as a file server like acme

m

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Russ Cox]

> perhaps one solution would be rio keeping shell windows as a file server like acme

you mean like it already does in /dev/text?

russ

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[matt]

lol, i hadn't noticed that

is there a way to access *all* of the /dev/texts rio is serving as 'grep $term /dev/text' starts to get a bit recursive :)

but thanks. 

I have read the manuals at least 3 times cover to cover, seems I can never remember enough of it :)

m

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[matt]

thanks, there we go then, who needs look on the mouse :)

m

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[C H Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 359 bytes --]

% ls -l /dev/wsys/*/text
--r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/1/text
--r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/2/text
--r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/21/text
--r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/28/text
--r-------- M 86 forsyth forsyth 0 Apr 21 17:36 /dev/wsys/29/text

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1931 bytes --]

From: matt@proweb.co.uk
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:31:07 +0100
Message-ID: <48739712dff6a5cc9c82f7c50304d07e@juice.thebigchoice.com>

lol, i hadn't noticed that

is there a way to access *all* of the /dev/texts rio is serving as 'grep $term /dev/text' starts to get a bit recursive :)

but thanks. 

I have read the manuals at least 3 times cover to cover, seems I can never remember enough of it :)

m

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[boyd, rounin]

> thanks, there we go then, who needs look on the mouse :)

not when you could put it on a function key.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[C H Forsyth]

try du /dev/wsys
much more fun.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[a]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8", Size: 153 bytes --]

// try and chord on a 2 button mousepad.

that's easy. my mousepad has 0 buttons. i've
even managed to chord with no mousepad at all!
;-)

Îã‚¢

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Fco.J.Ballesteros]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 228 bytes --]

Yep. Snarf, Cut, Paste is mostly wasted space in the
menu. We always have a hard time if you don't a have
a 3 button mouse, and if you have one, those entries
give you nothing.

I'd keep just 

plumb
send
look
scroll

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2231 bytes --]

From: a@9srv.net
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:45:26 -0400
Message-ID: <12c63e4238729e9b41a0d889d51485c9@9srv.net>

i'd love having Look in rio. i've made two or three half-hearted
passes at doing it myself over the last few years, but never
finished any of them.

my solution to it making the button 2 menu too croweded was to
remove the cut/snarf/paste options in favor of chording. in one
of my passes at Look, i had the menu changed (-cut/snarf/past,
+non-functional look) and i didn't look for the missing options
once.

but i realize that's a solution many here would hate. maybe
options for including sets of features?

the addition of plumb was, i think, quite noticable.
ア

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[lucio]

> Yep. Snarf, Cut, Paste is mostly wasted space in the
> menu. We always have a hard time if you don't a have
> a 3 button mouse, and if you have one, those entries
> give you nothing.

Maybe I'm clumsy, but I use Snarf from the menu in preference to
Cut+Paste if for no other reason than the cursor moves when I press
buttons, making my life difficult.  Cut and Paste I can do without,
on the other hand.

++L

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Fco.J.Ballesteros wrote:
> Yep. Snarf, Cut, Paste is mostly wasted space in the
> menu. We always have a hard time if you don't a have
> a 3 button mouse, and if you have one, those entries
> give you nothing.

Having used many different window systems that provide
those functions in different ways, I have to disagree.

Re: [9fans] searching in rio terminal windows

[boyd, rounin]

> Having used many different window systems that provide
> those functions in different ways, I have to disagree.

yup