[9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

Hi all,

Recently I started an adventure to 9front and found Plan 9 very
interesting.  I have thoroughly read the FQA and manual pages at
9front.org, and searched the web, but still don't know how to undo wrong
typing in Rio shell window and Acme editor's tag line,  I'm surprised
and not so used to the facts that:

* I can edit the output of a command in shell window, no way to undo

* I can change or delete the tags for Acme editor and its column, no way
to undo,   although the tags for Acme window can't be edited.

I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on
macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?


And one more question about Acme: how to quickly enter command? In VIM,
I can enter <ESC>...comand<Enter>, in Acme I have to move cursor to
command area and click, input command, press <ESC>,  click middle mouse
button on the highlighted command, is this the fastest way to input
command in Acme?


Thanks,

Yubao Liu

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[Kurt H Maier]

On Wed, May 09, 2018 at 02:32:53PM +0800, 刘宇宝 wrote:
> 
> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
> 

Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
also automatically provisioned, free of charge. 

khm

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

>> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
>> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
>> 
> 
> Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
> To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
> also automatically provisioned, free of charge. 

Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?

I'm not a troll,  I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D

Maybe I already got the answer @_@

Thanks,
Yubao Liu

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[hiro]

in sam you can type u in the command window for undo.

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[hiro]

rio has no knowledge of the past, you cannot undo there, though i
agree this can create problems for people coming from other platforms
that lack the ability to edit former output and not just the prompt.

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[Steve Simon]

hi.

i think it is humour of a kind.

i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is not possible.

you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the current windows id)

-Steve


On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:

>>> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
>>> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
>>> 
>> 
>> Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
>> To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
>> also automatically provisioned, free of charge. 
> 
> Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
> 
> I'm not a troll,  I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
> 
> Maybe I already got the answer @_@
> 
> Thanks,
> Yubao Liu

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

I often messed the output of previous command by accident, either by typing or mouse chords to cut or paste, then I can't copy original text :-(

ACME focuses the window under mouse cusor by default, I also often wrongly edit the tag line...

Indeed need some time to get used to it.

> On May 9, 2018, at 7:45 PM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> rio has no knowledge of the past, you cannot undo there, though i
> agree this can create problems for people coming from other platforms
> that lack the ability to edit former output and not just the prompt.
> 

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

Great thanks for your idea,  file oriented design is very flexible! The prompt function may be used to automatically backup the output of previous command,  a poor man's undo buffer :-D

I tried to execute "rc" in Acme, seems Acme always execution command with /dev/null as stdin, I can't embed an interactive rc session into Acme and leverage the undo buffer of Acme window.

> On May 9, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> 
> hi.
> 
> i think it is humour of a kind.
> 
> i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is not possible.
> 
> you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the current windows id)
> 
> -Steve
> 
> 
> On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
> 
>>>> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
>>>> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
>>> To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
>>> also automatically provisioned, free of charge. 
>> 
>> Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
>> 
>> I'm not a troll,  I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
>> 
>> Maybe I already got the answer @_@
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Yubao Liu
> 
> 

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[Chris McGee]

There’s a ‘win’ command you can executed in acme to get an interactive rc shell window.

> On May 9, 2018, at 11:40 AM, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
> 
> Great thanks for your idea,  file oriented design is very flexible! The prompt function may be used to automatically backup the output of previous command,  a poor man's undo buffer :-D
> 
> I tried to execute "rc" in Acme, seems Acme always execution command with /dev/null as stdin, I can't embed an interactive rc session into Acme and leverage the undo buffer of Acme window.
> 
>> On May 9, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>> 
>> hi.
>> 
>> i think it is humour of a kind.
>> 
>> i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is not possible.
>> 
>> you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the current windows id)
>> 
>> -Steve
>> 
>> 
>> On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
>>>>> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
>>>> To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
>>>> also automatically provisioned, free of charge. 
>>> 
>>> Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
>>> 
>>> I'm not a troll,  I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
>>> 
>>> Maybe I already got the answer @_@
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Yubao Liu
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[Raingloom]

Even if you are not in a `win` window (eg. if you are in an +Error one) you can use Undo. Sometimes Acme doesn't actually put Undo in the tag line, but if you type it out yourself it will still work. Well, at least on p9p Acme, I'm not sure about Plan 9 Acme.


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On May 9, 2018 5:40 PM, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:

> Great thanks for your idea, file oriented design is very flexible! The prompt function may be used to automatically backup the output of previous command, a poor man's undo buffer :-D
> 
> I tried to execute "rc" in Acme, seems Acme always execution command with /dev/null as stdin, I can't embed an interactive rc session into Acme and leverage the undo buffer of Acme window.
> 
> > On May 9, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Steve Simon steve@quintile.net wrote:
> > 
> > hi.
> > 
> > i think it is humour of a kind.
> > 
> > i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is not possible.
> > 
> > you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the current windows id)
> > 
> > -Steve
> > 
> > On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 liuyubao@yingmi.cn wrote:
> > 
> > > > > I miss much the universal shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on
> > > > > 
> > > > > macOS, does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
> > > > 
> > > > Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
> > > > 
> > > > To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
> > > > 
> > > > also automatically provisioned, free of charge.
> > > 
> > > Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
> > > 
> > > I'm not a troll, I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
> > > 
> > > Maybe I already got the answer @_@
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Yubao Liu

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

Excellent! This indeed gives an rc shell window embed into Acme editor, and I can undo editing in it,  right what I want!

Thank you very much!

> On May 10, 2018, at 6:37 AM, Chris McGee <newton688@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> There’s a ‘win’ command you can executed in acme to get an interactive rc shell window.
> 
>> On May 9, 2018, at 11:40 AM, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
>> 
>> Great thanks for your idea,  file oriented design is very flexible! The prompt function may be used to automatically backup the output of previous command,  a poor man's undo buffer :-D
>> 
>> I tried to execute "rc" in Acme, seems Acme always execution command with /dev/null as stdin, I can't embed an interactive rc session into Acme and leverage the undo buffer of Acme window.
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> hi.
>>> 
>>> i think it is humour of a kind.
>>> 
>>> i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is not possible.
>>> 
>>> you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the current windows id)
>>> 
>>> -Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
>>>>>> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
>>>>> To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
>>>>> also automatically provisioned, free of charge. 
>>>> 
>>>> Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not a troll,  I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe I already got the answer @_@
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Yubao Liu
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

Yes, "win rc" embeds a rc shell window in Acme, I can undo in the shell window,  that's perfect!

But the edit in tag line can't be undo,  I find the Undo command has no effect if it's on the top main tag line or the column tag line,  it only works on window tag line and only undo editing in the text window.

I tried p9p Acme on Mac OS X, seems the mouse button emulation with trackpad is broken, p9p Acme doesn't response to Shift + Secondary Click,  this is probably my problem, won't play it now until I'm more familiar with 9front in Virtualbox.

Thanks a lot!

> On May 10, 2018, at 7:02 AM, Raingloom <raingloom@protonmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Even if you are not in a `win` window (eg. if you are in an +Error one) you can use Undo. Sometimes Acme doesn't actually put Undo in the tag line, but if you type it out yourself it will still work. Well, at least on p9p Acme, I'm not sure about Plan 9 Acme.
> 
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> 
> On May 9, 2018 5:40 PM, 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
> 
>> Great thanks for your idea, file oriented design is very flexible! The prompt function may be used to automatically backup the output of previous command, a poor man's undo buffer :-D
>> 
>> I tried to execute "rc" in Acme, seems Acme always execution command with /dev/null as stdin, I can't embed an interactive rc session into Acme and leverage the undo buffer of Acme window.
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2018, at 10:14 PM, Steve Simon steve@quintile.net wrote:
>>> 
>>> hi.
>>> 
>>> i think it is humour of a kind.
>>> 
>>> i cannot speak for acme but rio has no undo buffer, so what you ask for is not possible.
>>> 
>>> you can save a windows content (including history). e.g. /dev/wsys/11/text /tmp (assuming the window you want is number 11, cat /dev/winid to get the current windows id)
>>> 
>>> -Steve
>>> 
>>> On 9 May 2018, at 11:55, 刘宇宝 liuyubao@yingmi.cn wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>> I miss much the universal shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> macOS, does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Both the Ctrl key and the z key are fully supported on 9front Systems.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To remove undesired characters from the screen, the Backspace key is
>>>>> 
>>>>> also automatically provisioned, free of charge.
>>>> 
>>>> Wow, is this kind of humor like the picture at the bottom of http://fqa.9front.org/ ?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not a troll, I wrote several articles to introduce Plan 9 some days ago, I'm seriously asking :-D
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe I already got the answer @_@
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Yubao Liu
> 
> 
> 

[9fans] What's the fastest way to input command in Acme?

[刘宇宝]

[[ I got perfect answers  to my original questions about undo, the another questions is probably neglected,  so I split another thread.]]


In VIM, I can input <ESC>...comand<Enter>, in Acme I have to move cursor to command area and click, input command, press <ESC>,  click middle mouse button on the highlighted command, is this the fastest way to input command in Acme?

I'm not arguing Vim is better, I agree some operations are faster in Vim and some faster in Acme,  I just want to know the most efficient way in Acme.

Thanks in advance for your kindly help!

Re: [9fans] What's the fastest way to input command in Acme?

[Rudolf Sykora]

> In VIM, I can input <ESC>...comand<Enter>, in Acme I have
> to move cursor to command area and click, input command, press <ESC>,
> click middle mouse button on the highlighted command, is this
> the fastest way to input command in Acme?

Basically, I think so.

I'd just add that
1) command can actually appear anywhere (but then it may clutter the
main text)
2) if the command is one word, then ESC is not necessary
3) you may keep several commands there, one kept highlighted
for immediate use
4) in p9p the tag line can have several lines

Ruda

Re: [9fans] What's the fastest way to input command in Acme?

[fgergo]

The tour of the acme editor should help answer a lot of your questions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 8:15 AM 刘宇宝 <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:

> [[ I got perfect answers  to my original questions about undo, the
another questions is probably neglected,  so I split another thread.]]


> In VIM, I can input <ESC>...comand<Enter>, in Acme I have to move cursor
to command area and click, input command, press <ESC>,  click middle mouse
button on the highlighted command, is this the fastest way to input command
in Acme?

> I'm not arguing Vim is better, I agree some operations are faster in Vim
and some faster in Acme,  I just want to know the most efficient way in
Acme.

> Thanks in advance for your kindly help!

Re: [9fans] What's the fastest way to input command in Acme?

[hiro]

many people keep an additional text file open as scratchspace and
command buffer for other winows.
this is nicer than the multiline p9p tagline or other solutions like
scrolling sideways in the plan 9 acme.

Re: [9fans] What's the fastest way to input command in Acme?

[Mark van Atten]

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 12:09 PM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> many people keep an additional text file open as scratchspace and
> command buffer for other winows.
> this is nicer than the multiline p9p tagline or other solutions like
> scrolling sideways in the plan 9 acme.

Agreed.

And obviously such a scratch space can itself be saved, which is useful for
the next editing session of the files in question.

Mark.

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[cherry]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 390 bytes --]

>
>
> I tried p9p Acme on Mac OS X, seems the mouse button emulation with
> trackpad is broken, p9p Acme doesn't response to Shift + Secondary Click,
> this is probably my problem, won't play it now until I'm more familiar with
> 9front in Virtualbox.
>

Alt+Click does a middle click (button 2), Command+Click does a right click
(button 3). Also, Command+Z does what's expected.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 614 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[刘宇宝]

Thank you very much, these combinations do work well!

A little supplement,  Command-z works in acme but not 9term, anyway, that's fine, I can embed term in acme.

> On May 10, 2018, at 8:18 PM, cherry <lunaria21@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I tried p9p Acme on Mac OS X, seems the mouse button emulation with trackpad is broken, p9p Acme doesn't response to Shift + Secondary Click,  this is probably my problem, won't play it now until I'm more familiar with 9front in Virtualbox.
> 
> Alt+Click does a middle click (button 2), Command+Click does a right click (button 3). Also, Command+Z does what's expected.
> 
>  

Re: [9fans] how to undo in Rio shell window and Acme editor?

[Ethan A. Gardener]

As a small extra hint if you ever need to work outside Acme, any delete of selected text is effectively a cut. You can paste it back in. I used to use that like undo all the time.

On Wed, May 9, 2018, at 7:32 AM, 刘宇宝 wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Recently I started an adventure to 9front and found Plan 9 very 
> interesting.  I have thoroughly read the FQA and manual pages at 
> 9front.org, and searched the web, but still don't know how to undo wrong 
> typing in Rio shell window and Acme editor's tag line,  I'm surprised 
> and not so used to the facts that:
> 
> * I can edit the output of a command in shell window, no way to undo
> 
> * I can change or delete the tags for Acme editor and its column, no way 
> to undo,   although the tags for Acme window can't be edited.
> 
> I miss much the *universal* shortcut Ctrl-z on Window and Command-z on 
> macOS,  does Rio and Acme have the equivalent?
> 
> 
> And one more question about Acme: how to quickly enter command? In VIM, 
> I can enter <ESC>...comand<Enter>, in Acme I have to move cursor to 
> command area and click, input command, press <ESC>,  click middle mouse 
> button on the highlighted command, is this the fastest way to input 
> command in Acme?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Yubao Liu
> 
> 


-- 
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. -- Chaucer