[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[G.David]

| Any recommendations for PCI SCSI?

I use DPT SCSI controllers.  I use the 2041W (ISA) in my
systems, but there is a driver available for the PCI cards.

David Butler
gdb@dbSystems.com

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[Nigel]

Tekram are a popular supplier of 875 based cards.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Schwartz [mailto:schwartz@bio.cse.psu.edu]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 4:43 AM
To: Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu; 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system. 


"James A. Robinson" <Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu> writes:
| Any recommendations for PCI SCSI?

Symbios (aka NCR) based scsi seems to be the preferred solution, with
drivers from Nigel Roles <ngr@symbionics.co.uk>.  Diamond Fireport
cards are readily available; if you look harder you can find a genuine
Symbios card.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[forsyth]

>>my terminal at home has indeed got a drive

con'td:

one of my terminals at home has indeed got a [scsi] drive, as
you'll notice if you look at my configuration page, but
i don't use it (it's clearly quieter when i spin it down after boot).
i installed it initially to check my ultrastor driver.  the terminal has
also got a scsi cdrom changer but that's only
because my indigo cpu server didn't accept it, otherwise i'd have
attached it there (more useful).  the other terminal is discless.

the nice thing about plan 9 is that you can mix and match
as you like.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[forsyth]

>>I was interested to read the comments that the CPU server and terminal
>>server don't need hard drives.  I was wondering how hard it is to then
>>use the terminal to install the file server software?  But in any case,

a little more elaboration might be helpful.

i was trying to remember how the 4 diskette set was organised.
using that, i suppose you would need to unpack the diskettes into a dos
partition somewhere to provide the environment to make the file
server boot diskette and unload the CDROM.
with your configuration, i'd probably have booted the cpu server
as a terminal for initial installation and left the `real' terminal
discless.  (i'll discuss that in a moment.)  once you've got a file
server loaded, the terminals can indeed be discless.
connect it to the network, make an entry in /lib/ndb/local, and boot.
(you can also boot, then make the entry in /lib/ndb/local if you
load the kernel from floppy not over the network.)

contrary to what i said before, it can be (marginally) helpful to have a disc
on the cpu server because the nvram partition lives there,
making reboots a little more automatic (though i still don't bother).
you can also use it for local paging space.

a disc on the terminal could be used for dual-boot
with windows or linux if you need them, for paging space for plan9, for the
cache file system if you're using the cable modem to a system
at work, or for local kfs storage.

i still prefer to have discless terminals when i can,
partly because it demonstrates that the network computer was easily
but more usefully anticipated by plan9's arrangement;
it is slightly cheaper to build a new terminal or server(though not by as much as it once did);
one less thing is needed when recycling cast-off 486 machines as utility cpu servers
or cheap terminals;
but mainly because there is less noise.

when i nevertheless need a disc on a terminal for windows/linux/xBSD dual boot,
or for experiment (eg, with scsi cards), and the drive supports it,
i set spindowntime in plan9.ini (for eide drives)
or use scuzz (for scsi drives) to have the system shut down the drive.
my terminal at home has indeed got a drive

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[forsyth]

>>the reliability of the cable modem. Once in a while my connection drops
>>for a minute or so -- can Plan 9 handle that? Or will it force a reboot
>>on the terminal or something?

it tends to be slightly quick to reboot but you could
calm it down a bit.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[James]

Whew, I just ordered all the parts. The final configuration is listed
below. I hope I haven't made any errors in getting equipment that
will work!  Has anyone ever collected a list of parts used in current
Plan 9 setups that the folks on this list use?  I would be interested
in collecting such information, and putting it up on a webpage. If
people feel like e-mailing me their setups, I will do so.

I was interested to read the comments that the CPU server and terminal
server don't need hard drives.  I was wondering how hard it is to then
use the terminal to install the file server software?  But in any case,
some 1.2Gb EIDE drives were cheap enough ($100) that I just got a pair.

I'm wondering what people use to network between the File servers and
the CPU servers. Does everyone here just use plain 10BaseT, or some
folks use something fancier?

Finally, I thought that perhaps I might be able to have the two server
machines here at work (where Stanford has some T1 connectivity), and
install the terminal server at home, networking over my cable modem (only
about 512k). Will this work?  One problem I've been thinking about is
the reliability of the cable modem. Once in a while my connection drops
for a minute or so -- can Plan 9 handle that? Or will it force a reboot
on the terminal or something?

Parts:

	File Server
		Asus P2B (BX) w/ Pentium II 266Mhz
		128Mb PC-100 100Mhz SDRAM
		Diamond Fireport 40 PCI
		Seagate 9Gb 7200 Barracuda
		Generic 256k VGA card
		3com 3c509 Combo ISA ethernet
	
	CPU Server
		Asus P2B (BX) w/ Pentium II 400Mhz
		256Mb PC-100 100Mhz SDRAM
		S3 Trio64 V2 w/ 4mb Video
		24x Mitsumi ATAPI CD-ROM
		1.2Gb CMS Enhancements EIDE
		3com 3c509 Combo ISA ethernet
	
	Terminal Server
		ATC-5030 Baby AT w/ Pentium I 233Mhz MMX
		128 Mb 60ns SIMM
		ATI Xpert@Work w/ 4Mb Video
		1.2Gb CMS Enhancements EIDE
		3com 3c509 Combo ISA ethernet
		Viewsonic P810 Monitor (already have this, thankfully)

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[forsyth]

>>			File server: 1.0Gb E-IDE, 1 IBM Ultrastar 4.5Gb

the file server doesn't need the ide disc (won't use it).
it also doesn't use anything beyond cga mode on the graphics
card so you can use almost any old cruddy ISA card you've got in a spares box.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[forsyth]

>>And I guess I need to get a CDROM drive -- what should it
>>be hooked into? The File server? The Terminal? The CPU
>>server?

it won't do much good on the file server, which won't use it.
you could put it on the terminal (useful for installing the CDROM
initially), but if it's on the CPU server, you can import it for use
on any terminal connected to your system.
you could boot the cpu server as a terminal for installation from the CDROM.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[Scott]

"James A. Robinson" <Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu> writes:
| Any recommendations for PCI SCSI?

Symbios (aka NCR) based scsi seems to be the preferred solution, with
drivers from Nigel Roles <ngr@symbionics.co.uk>.  Diamond Fireport
cards are readily available; if you look harder you can find a genuine
Symbios card.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[Scott]

One thing on my at-home wishlist (if not todolist) is for the
fileserver to run enough user mode processes to also function as the
authentication server.  Then you would only need two machines to get a
whole system, instead of three.  Obviously, this is less of an issue
with a number of users.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[James]

< No secret, that was me.  I adapted the mach64ct driver for the ATI Rage
< family of chips, but the update may not have found its way back to the
< FTP site yet.  I'll supply Jim with an updated aux/vga, and also a b.com
< and kernel which should get him going on a 4.3GB IDE disk.

Thanks for the updates!  For some reason, b.com/9dos didn't like my PC,
and it crashed. :(  However, I just went and yanked an old 2.0Gb IDE 
drive out of one of the soon-to-be-retired workstations, and that worked
just dandy.   

Since I don't yet have an ATI xpert@work card, I went and dug up a S3
Trio64 (Well, Trio64V2).  If anyone out wants to use a "Venus 64V2,"
here is an id string that sort of works:

	0xC004A="S3 86C775/86C785 Video BIOS. Version 2.04.09-1"

That let me do 1024x786x1 (no 8 bit above 640x480 worked properly). But
that's good enough to know that I want to continue my experiment with
Plan 9! So, I'm about to go start buying equipment for my setup, and
I'll order a copy of Plan9 via Amazon.com so I can actually take a look
at the source (and perhaps figure out how to make this junky little Trio
card do higher res/color).

Do people have recommendations or cavets about fileserver and cpu server
hardware? From yesterday, I learned that I should be careful about the
IDE boot disks -- max 2.0Gb, right?  Do I have to worry about size on
the SCSI disk that the file server will use?

Any recommendations for PCI SCSI? Buslogic seems like a good idea, and
from what I've read on the list it seems like the 956c is supported. What
about the Busmastering 958 cards (I've got one at home in my linux box,
and it seems like a nice card).  Forsythe, I don't think I'd be able
to use the Adaptec, because I don't think I'll be getting any VLB 
capable motherboards.

I was thinking of something along the following lines, and I'd like
to know if I'm either not planning on enough, or am going overboard,
when it comes to RAM and CPU power for the various components. The
Terminal is going to be stand-alone (no other OS on it):

	Motherboards: Microstar MS-6119 (400BX)
	(Tom's Hardware page says it is very stable)

	CPUs:	Terminal:	 PII 233Mhz (64Mb SDRAM)
			File server: PII 266Mhz (128Mb SDRAM)
			CPU server:	 PII 400Mhz (256Mb SDRAM)

	Disks:	CPU & Terminal: 1.0Gb E-IDE (or smaller, if I can find them!)
			File server: 1.0Gb E-IDE, 1 IBM Ultrastar 4.5Gb
						  Buslogic 956? BT-958? Adaptec 1542C? Not sure...
			
	Video:	CPU & File: Generic Trio64 (1024x768x1)
			Terminal: ATI Xpert@Work (1600x1200x8)
			
	Network: 3com 3c509 combo cards
				
And I guess I need to get a CDROM drive -- what should it
be hooked into? The File server? The Terminal? The CPU
server?


Thank you,

Jim

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[miller]

"James A. Robinson" <Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu> wrote:

>	... Another
>	person (who e-mailed me directly, so I won't mention names) also
>	said that he is using the ATI xpert@work. ... I
> combed the FTP site, but couldn't find the driver ...

No secret, that was me.  I adapted the mach64ct driver for the ATI Rage
family of chips, but the update may not have found its way back to the
FTP site yet.  I'll supply Jim with an updated aux/vga, and also a b.com
and kernel which should get him going on a 4.3GB IDE disk.

-- Richard Miller

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[James]

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:38:38 -0700 I wrote:

< I'm setting up a spec sheet for a complete setup (File server, CPU server,
< and one terminal). In regards to the terminal, I'm having trouble figuring
< out what I video cards a) I can still get ahold of, and b) will work well.

Thanks to the folks who responded! The following cards were mentioned:

	One person responded to my "as many colors as plan9 needs for normal use"
	with "Probably two." -- thanks a lot, buddy! :-) :-P :-)

	Trio64 V+2MB is being used (and, I assume, is performing well enough)

	Matrox Millenium II is supported under Brazil, and somebody
	named Jim (Jim McKie???) made the drive available to Scott
	Schwartz. Mr. Schwartz hasn't had a chance to retrofit it yet,
	but seems to plan on doing so. Note, Matrox II cards CAN still
	be purchased (or at least, vendors claim so):

		http://www.buycomp.com/bc/noframes/product.asp?mscssid=AFF7CB86ALSH2G3T00CLJAFH5BA39MV3&sku=255527
		http://165.90.3.9/store/start/cmp2/elecstart.html?pn=451315-B
		http://www.hardwarestreet.com/sst/CART/cgi/getDBPage.cgi?sku=255527&pc=prscan
		http://www.ic-direct.com/content/details.asp?ProductID=M154153&from=pricescan

	The #9 771 2mb with the S3 chip is being used at 1025x768x8 (1025???)
	"Some" Diamond Stealths (I assume they use the S3?) are also being used.
		
	Mr. McKie, direct from Bell Labs, responded that he is using
	an ATI xpert@work card.  There is a driver for the ATI Rage
	chipset which allows him to use this card in 1600x1200x8. Another
	person (who e-mailed me directly, so I won't mention names) also
	said that he is using the ATI xpert@work.  
	
Since the ATI got two mentions, and seems to be a reasonable card that
is easily available, I'm most interested in getting a driver for it. I
combed the FTP site, but couldn't find the driver -- did I miss it? Is
it available to mere mortals? Do I have to buy the CD-ROM and furnish
proof of ownership in order to get ahold of the driver?


Thanks everyone!

Jim

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[forsyth]

i've got an Ultrastor 34F VLB card i really can't use any longer.
an Ultrastor 34F is a bus-mastering 32-bit SCSI card.
i found the Ultrastor controllers outperformed the Adaptec ones of similar vintage,
and the 34F (being bus mastering and 32 bit) doesn't suffer from the 16Mbyte DMA limit.
i believe it still works, but i can't test it.
if anyone is interested, let me know.
(i'll apply weighted shortest path if several people reply.)
you'll need a 486 with a VLB slot that supports bus mastering.
not all VLB implementations do.
it's an impressive full length card, so you'll also need enough
space beyond the VLB slot.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[jmk]

There is a driver out there which handles most of the recent ATI cards
using the Rage chips. I have an xpert@work which I'm very happy with, it
does 1600x1200x8.

--jim

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[Scott]

"James A. Robinson" <Jim.Robinson@Stanford.Edu> writes:
| drivers for my current video cards (I've got one Matrox Millenium, two
| Matrox Millentium II, and one #9 Revolution 3D), but in the mean time I
| need a card.  

Jim was nice enough to send me the Brazil drivers for the mil2, which I
haven't had a chance to retrofit yet, unfortunately.  (As well, that
card is apparently not being manufactured anymore, so I don't know if
I'll be able to actually get one as planned.)

I guess the official philosophy is that 640x480 should work everywhere,
and that should be enough for you to run acme and write drivers for
whatever you do have. :-)

| Ideally I would like to have 1600x1200, or 1280x1024, in as
| many colors as plan9 needs for normal use.  I've got my current linux box
| running at 1600x1200x24 and would love it if I could get the same with
| plan9. 

It's eight bit color, at whatever res you have enough ram (wired down
in the kernel, alas, for /dev/bitblt) to support.

| 	#9 9fx Motion 771 PCI ($194.00) 

That one works well, and is higher end than the others you mentioned.

[9fans] Building a new Plan 9 system.

[James]

Hey all,


I've been reading Plan 9 documents for the past month or so. Plan 9 seems
like the ideal system to explore distributed operating systems that are
well thought out.  I've also been looking at Beowulf, since I have been
running Linux since 1992, but it just doesn't seem to have the elegant
nature of Plan 9.

Two years ago, I went through much the same thing -- I read the papers,
and was very impressed. I wanted a system to play around on! Since I was a
student at the time, it was not to be -- I just didn't have the resources.
Now that I'm in the work force, that has changed, and I want to go ahead
and build a nice system.

I'm setting up a spec sheet for a complete setup (File server, CPU server,
and one terminal). In regards to the terminal, I'm having trouble figuring
out what I video cards a) I can still get ahold of, and b) will work well.
Is there a high resolution video card which is still being made and sold
that people would recommend for plan9? I would like to eventually make
drivers for my current video cards (I've got one Matrox Millenium, two
Matrox Millentium II, and one #9 Revolution 3D), but in the mean time I
need a card.  Ideally I would like to have 1600x1200, or 1280x1024, in as
many colors as plan9 needs for normal use.  I've got my current linux box
running at 1600x1200x24 and would love it if I could get the same with
plan9. The number of colors isn't THAT important to me, since most of
what I do is text based, but I would like at least 256 colors if possible.

In case the answer is "out of luck, pal -- no such beast," I've
combed through the 9fans archive, and whatever FAQs I could locate
(plan9.bell-labs.com "what we use" and the Toronto "supported hardware"
list).  I've come up with vendors that claim to sell the following cards:

	#9 9fx Motion 771 PCI ($194.00) Diamond Stealth64 Graphics 2001
	($60.00) Ultimate TrueColor XLp/PCI ET4000/W32 ($92.00) S3 Trio
	64 V+2MB ($30.00)

What would people recommend?  What do you use?	If people e-mail me
directly, I can post a summary at the end of the week (if people want
one).


Jim