Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Russ Cox]

	1. Sample Plan 9 setup and guidelines for decisions (I'm still
           pouring over the Overview to Plan 9 networks)

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/start.pdf is a start.

	2. Sample programs that use Plan 9 features

I think the most fundamentally Plan 9 aspect for a distributed
systems course is the easy sharing of resources.  Play around
with import, or with /mnt/term in cpu connections.

A nice demonstration is remote debugging via "import othermachine /proc".
An even better demonstration when the two machines are
different architectures.

An anecdote about remote resource sharing.
I have a private network with a few machines on it,
including a Windows box and a Linux box.  The Linux
box does not talk to the outside world, but the Windows
box can.  I wanted to ssh into the Linux box, but was
without my laptop (and thus my ssh key) and didn't even
have ssh installed on the Windows box.

I did, however, have my ssh key on another Plan 9 server,
accessible via the internet.  Without any encryption
software on the Windows box, I had no way to securely
get the ssh key.  Instead, I started up drawterm (a program
that pretends to be a Plan 9 terminal calling a cpu server)
and connected to the server with the ssh key.  Then I
ran ssh on the remote cpu server but driving the Windows box's
TCP stack underneath:

	bind /mnt/term/net/tcp /net/tcp
	ssh 1.2.3.4

All was well, and the ssh key never left the remote server.

Russ

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Fco. J. Ballesteros]

In case that helps, I'm using Inferno for a 2nd course on OS. And I'm
going to use Plan 9 for a 3rd course on OS.

For Inferno, the lab assignment is doing a file server out of a mail
folder. The styx server to be done must be `highly available' to some
extent.

Regarding Plan 9, I'm writing a commentary on the kernel source to be
used as a text book by the students. The lab assignment will be
changing some part of the kernel---but I've not decided yet.

Urls for the courses are
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/docencia/asignaturas/ampliacion_ssoo and
http://gsyc.escet.urjc.es/docencia/asignaturas/osd but they are in
spanish.  The commentary is in english though. As soon as I get a
`decent enough' version of it, I'll drop a line to the list to get
some feedback.

BTW, I'm not sure of license issues regarding the commentary. Would be
enough to send it to lucent and stating that the reader must agree
with the source code license?

regards

--
    ()    ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail
    /\                          - against microsoft attachments

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Boyd Roberts]

From: "David Gordon Hogan" <dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com>

> Don't worry, I've got it backed up on CD-ROM...

not on a 9 track in tar format, with the reality?

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[David Gordon Hogan]

> Whether for historical reasons, or otherwise, I find it painful to
> lose information irretrivably (the symptoms of a miser, I believe).
> I would like to think that the Flamingo port isn't lost, or if it
> is, that it is adequately documented, but I know better :-)

Don't worry, I've got it backed up on CD-ROM...

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Lucio De Re]

On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 11:34:00AM -0400, David Gordon Hogan wrote:
>
> I had 2nd edition running on a Flamingo a long time ago, but I'm
> sure nobody cares.
>
_I_ care, although I have no idea what a Flamingo is (the ones I
am familiar with would object to running 2nd edition, I'm sure).

Whether for historical reasons, or otherwise, I find it painful to
lose information irretrivably (the symptoms of a miser, I believe).
I would like to think that the Flamingo port isn't lost, or if it
is, that it is adequately documented, but I know better :-)

In a sense, the appeal of Plan 9 seemed very much in the underlying
principles, I guess that's why it hurts to hear that bits of it
are being thrown away: how do we know when someone may need to
redevelop them?

On a only slightly related subject, if I'm lucky, I'll be getting
some Sun equipment later this month, in which case a Sparc port
moves into my priority list.  Don't anyone hold their breath :-)

In passing, I have flushed out a misunderstanding that kept Alef
for the Power PC from working.  I have a few very minor, almost
entirely esthetic improvements to the Alef source that anyone with
the 2ed licence is welcome to.  Hm, I wonder if the diffs fall
under the 2ed licence?

++L

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Boyd Roberts]

From: "David (Solid) Hogan" <dhog@plan9.bell-labs.com>

> to get running.  And AXP is a generic term for the Alpha architecture
> itself (I think jmk found some explanation of the initials somewhere).

any good acronym has gotta have an X.  just won't sell otherwise :-)

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[David Gordon Hogan]

anothy@cosym.net writes:
> unfortunatly, there are currently no NeXT or SPARC kernel ports
> for 3rd ed. Plan 9. your options are pc, alphapc (the AXP systems,
> i think), [...]

Just to clarify on the AlphaPC front: Plan 9 3rd edition runs on the
AlphaPC 164.  Other Alpha machines will require some kernel work
to get running.  And AXP is a generic term for the Alpha architecture
itself (I think jmk found some explanation of the initials somewhere).

I had 2nd edition running on a Flamingo a long time ago, but I'm
sure nobody cares.

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Ish Rattan]

It is not exactly answer to your question. One way to play with Plan 9
is run a cpu/terminal combo and students can login via drawterm, it may
serv well if you have a small class. The interface per se is simple but
different (unlike Amoeba that uses UNIX like interface). It pays to have
the documentation/man-pages in printed form.

Also, try to look at Inferno too for distributed system plateform. As it
is hosted OS it is easier to install and maintain.

Now, if it is possible at all, I would like to have look at the
programming assignments that you have used on the Amoeba cluster (shopping
for ideas!).

Regards,

- ishwar

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Kirk M. Anne wrote:

>
> I am assisting a Computer Science faculty member with a Distributed
> Systems undergraduate course and we are working on Amoeba now.  I spotted
> that Plan 9 is now available for downloading and have tinkered around with
> it and read through many of the papers.
>
> I was wondering if there were any example programs or "How to" documents
> that we can give out to the class to help them learn about Plan 9.  We
> have built an Amoeba cluster and want to replicate the experience in Plan
> 9 so that the students can get a firm understanding of how distributed
> systems work (where there are similarities and differences between the
> two).
>
> So, could anyone send me the following?
>
> 	1. Sample Plan 9 setup and guidelines for decisions (I'm still
>            pouring over the Overview to Plan 9 networks)
>
> 	2. Sample programs that use Plan 9 features
>
> 	3. Recommendations for an upper level project using Plan 9
>
> 	4. Pointers to SPARC and NeXT installation instructions for Plan 9
>
> If this goes well, we hope to continue with directed studies on using Plan
> 9 to solve scientific problems that other faculty around campus have in
> Physics, Chemistry and Biology.
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Kirk Anne
> Manager, Systems & Networking
> SUNY Geneseo
> Geneseo, NY 14454
> 716-245-5577
>
>

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Richard Miller]

> and a PowerPC
> system alternatly called "brick" of "viaduct" (don't think it's
> available outside the labs).

This version also works (with a few minor changes) on the ipEngine-1
available from http://www.brightstareng.com

-- Richard Miller

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[anothy]

//	4. Pointers to SPARC and NeXT installation instructions

unfortunatly, there are currently no NeXT or SPARC kernel ports
for 3rd ed. Plan 9. your options are pc, alphapc (the AXP systems,
i think), carrere (a discontinued mips pc-like box), and a PowerPC
system alternatly called "brick" of "viaduct" (don't think it's
available outside the labs). which leads nicely to...

//	3. Recommendations for an upper level project using Plan 9

yeah: do a port. it's been done by non-Labs folks for 2nd ed.,
and could be replicated. a good way to learn about the internal
design of the system, and helpful to the larger community. and if
you've got to read kernel source, Plan 9's the only kernel to
read. it helps to learn on something that actually makes sense.

various people reading this list may know where to find some of
the above-mentioned ports (as they did them). several of the
papers in /sys/doc should be required reading for any class
dealing with Plan 9 (and probably for anybody dealing with it).

just my 2¢
-α.

Re: [9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[andrey mirtchovski]

I'm kind of in the same shoes -- I've taken up on Plan9 for a research
project of mine. I am trying to port/reimplement some bioinformatics
algorithms for plan9 and will compare them with PVM running on NetBSD
(presumably on the same cluster)...

The hardware I have been allocated is a bunch of old Alpha UDBs, on which
I'm just starting to install Plan9.

My suggestion would be to create a simple plan9 installation on i386-based
machines and work from there. The stations can easily be booted off a i386
fileserver, provided you can compile a suitable kernel for sparc (don't know
about NeXT boxen). The source code is very readable and will (hopefully) be
no problem to customize (I've heeard of at least one non-bell-labs person
who has tweaked the kernel succesfully in order to get P9 going on weird
hardware, and AFAIK it's not too hard, just time consuming :)

As for example programs and tutorials -- it seems to be all there, you just
have to look through the code for several of the utilities that provide
functionality similar to what you need. In my opinion their code reads
pretty much like a book.

Also there have been several links and code posted to this list/newsgroup
which contain sample implementations of several types -- graphics, device
drivers, utilities, scripts... Browsing through the archives may yield
positive results :)

Regards: Andrey

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Kirk M. Anne wrote:

>
> I am assisting a Computer Science faculty member with a Distributed
> Systems undergraduate course and we are working on Amoeba now.  I spotted
> that Plan 9 is now available for downloading and have tinkered around with
> it and read through many of the papers.
>
> I was wondering if there were any example programs or "How to" documents
> that we can give out to the class to help them learn about Plan 9.  We
> have built an Amoeba cluster and want to replicate the experience in Plan
> 9 so that the students can get a firm understanding of how distributed
> systems work (where there are similarities and differences between the
> two).
>
> So, could anyone send me the following?
>
> 	1. Sample Plan 9 setup and guidelines for decisions (I'm still
>            pouring over the Overview to Plan 9 networks)
>
> 	2. Sample programs that use Plan 9 features
>
> 	3. Recommendations for an upper level project using Plan 9
>
> 	4. Pointers to SPARC and NeXT installation instructions for Plan 9
>
> If this goes well, we hope to continue with directed studies on using Plan
> 9 to solve scientific problems that other faculty around campus have in
> Physics, Chemistry and Biology.
>
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Kirk Anne
> Manager, Systems & Networking
> SUNY Geneseo
> Geneseo, NY 14454
> 716-245-5577
>
>

[9fans] Pointers for using Plan 9?

[Kirk M. Anne]

I am assisting a Computer Science faculty member with a Distributed
Systems undergraduate course and we are working on Amoeba now.  I spotted
that Plan 9 is now available for downloading and have tinkered around with
it and read through many of the papers.

I was wondering if there were any example programs or "How to" documents
that we can give out to the class to help them learn about Plan 9.  We
have built an Amoeba cluster and want to replicate the experience in Plan
9 so that the students can get a firm understanding of how distributed
systems work (where there are similarities and differences between the
two).

So, could anyone send me the following?

	1. Sample Plan 9 setup and guidelines for decisions (I'm still
           pouring over the Overview to Plan 9 networks)

	2. Sample programs that use Plan 9 features

	3. Recommendations for an upper level project using Plan 9

	4. Pointers to SPARC and NeXT installation instructions for Plan 9

If this goes well, we hope to continue with directed studies on using Plan
9 to solve scientific problems that other faculty around campus have in
Physics, Chemistry and Biology.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Kirk Anne
Manager, Systems & Networking
SUNY Geneseo
Geneseo, NY 14454
716-245-5577