[9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Enrico Weigelt]

Hi folks,


I'm currently playing around with some ideas for a new (or perhaps
very old ? ;-o) computing architecture, based on 9P + Java.
It's a bit of old Burroughs MF, a bit of Ambric and a bit ja Java ;-o

The idea bind: have a bunch of tiny Java machines (not the whole
JEE bloat, just a very small set of basic classes) which talk to
each other through filesystems (of course via 9P ;-P).

At the moment, I'm doing a massive trim-down of Jamvm+classpath,
leaving in only what's needed for a small hello-world.

Later, I'll create an minimalistic embedded firmware for small
devices which then should run in an grid.


If anyone's interested, just let me know.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 cellphone: +49 174 7066481   email: info@metux.de   skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Fernan Bolando]

On 12/1/08, Enrico Weigelt <weigelt@metux.de> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
> I'm currently playing around with some ideas for a new (or perhaps
> very old ? ;-o) computing architecture, based on 9P + Java.
> It's a bit of old Burroughs MF, a bit of Ambric and a bit ja Java ;-o
>
> The idea bind: have a bunch of tiny Java machines (not the whole
> JEE bloat, just a very small set of basic classes) which talk to
> each other through filesystems (of course via 9P ;-P).
>
> At the moment, I'm doing a massive trim-down of Jamvm+classpath,
> leaving in only what's needed for a small hello-world.
>
> Later, I'll create an minimalistic embedded firmware for small
> devices which then should run in an grid.
>
>
> If anyone's interested, just let me know.
>
>

Hi

That is very cool I am doing something similar ( I think ).
In hugs (haskell interpreter) there are some things that relies on
loadable modules. I created a plumber call and it launches a handler
for some of those things.

Now I can use libraries from p9p and 9vx without porting. I am
guessing it would also work on a remote machine, meaning I can compile
the handler on a super fast plan9 or a p9p machine and just mount the
plumber and run my haskell code as usuall.

This also means that any language that has file IO will be able to use
the handlers.

I am not sure if plumber was designed to do this, but it seems to work
on some of my simple arithmetic libraries.


--
http://www.fernski.com

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Fernan Bolando <fernanbolando@mailc.net> wrote:

Hi,

> That is very cool I am doing something similar ( I think ).
> In hugs (haskell interpreter) there are some things that relies on
> loadable modules. I created a plumber call and it launches a handler
> for some of those things.
>
> Now I can use libraries from p9p and 9vx without porting. I am
> guessing it would also work on a remote machine, meaning I can compile
> the handler on a super fast plan9 or a p9p machine and just mount the
> plumber and run my haskell code as usuall.

Cool :)
Let's me know if you've got something working (maybe even ported to p9p ?)
My functional programming experiences are some ages ago, but I think,
I should dig it out again ...


Would be even cool, if we someday have an distributed multi-language
grid environment :)

That's the point, where 9P/synthetic filesystems make *REALLY* fun.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 cellphone: +49 174 7066481   email: info@metux.de   skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[ron minnich]

so if you are using 9p and servers, where does java come in ? Why to
you care what language it is?

ron

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Uriel]

Ever heard of Inferno? Or are you using java purely for the
masochistic pleasure?

uriel

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:40 AM, Enrico Weigelt <weigelt@metux.de> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
> I'm currently playing around with some ideas for a new (or perhaps
> very old ? ;-o) computing architecture, based on 9P + Java.
> It's a bit of old Burroughs MF, a bit of Ambric and a bit ja Java ;-o
>
> The idea bind: have a bunch of tiny Java machines (not the whole
> JEE bloat, just a very small set of basic classes) which talk to
> each other through filesystems (of course via 9P ;-P).
>
> At the moment, I'm doing a massive trim-down of Jamvm+classpath,
> leaving in only what's needed for a small hello-world.
>
> Later, I'll create an minimalistic embedded firmware for small
> devices which then should run in an grid.
>
>
> If anyone's interested, just let me know.
>
>
> cu
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/
>
>  cellphone: +49 174 7066481   email: info@metux.de   skype: nekrad666
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

> Ever heard of Inferno? Or are you using java purely for the
> masochistic pleasure?

Actually, I like Java (the language, NOT the fat J2EE crap),
and a trimmed-down Java is also suited for small devices, eg.
can be partially done in hardware. (I'm not yet used to Limbo,
maybe I'll dive into it later).

The idea behind is having a *very small* jvm (eg. kvm or further
trimmed-down jamvm with only very few base classes) which runs on
virtually any device anywhere in the net and build a big grid out
of these devices, recycling unused resources on uncountable of
bored machines around the world, from routers to big servers ;P


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 cellphone: +49 174 7066481   email: info@metux.de   skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Nov 30, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
>
> I'm currently playing around with some ideas for a new (or perhaps
> very old ? ;-o) computing architecture, based on 9P + Java.
> It's a bit of old Burroughs MF, a bit of Ambric and a bit ja Java ;-o
>
> The idea bind: have a bunch of tiny Java machines (not the whole
> JEE bloat, just a very small set of basic classes) which talk to
> each other through filesystems (of course via 9P ;-P).


But what's next? Do you have a specific application for these things
in mind?

Besides, Inferno seems to be delivering much more on the
original Java promise, anyway. So why not use it instead?
Or do you really plan to take advantage of the intricacies
of the VM?

Thanks,
Roman.

P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
natively on these puppies:
     http://www.sunspotworld.com/

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Brian L. Stuart]

> P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
> natively on these puppies:
>      http://www.sunspotworld.com/

That's a seriously cool idea.  I just discovered we
have a dev kit here at work.  I can't say for sure
whether the powers that be will approve of me spending
time working on an Inferno port, but I think I can at
least take a look in between anything else that comes
up.

Time to start playing...

BLS

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com> wrote:

> But what's next? Do you have a specific application for
> these things in mind?

Not yet, it's just an experiment :)

> Besides, Inferno seems to be delivering much more on the
> original Java promise, anyway. So why not use it instead?

Might be true, I didn't try it yet. Will require some efforts
to learn yet another new language. And that's one of the major
points: Java is widely understood in the industry, from big
application servers to small devices - so the change of getting
new people involved is much bigger.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 cellphone: +49 174 7066481   email: info@metux.de   skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Dec  1 12:10:13 EST 2008, blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
> > natively on these puppies:
> >      http://www.sunspotworld.com/
>
> That's a seriously cool idea.  I just discovered we
> have a dev kit here at work.  I can't say for sure
> whether the powers that be will approve of me spending
> time working on an Inferno port, but I think I can at
> least take a look in between anything else that comes
> up.
>
> Time to start playing...
>
> BLS

$750 seems a tad overpriced.  even for two.
i may not have seen the cheep link, though.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[blstuart]

> On Mon Dec  1 12:10:13 EST 2008, blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote:
>> > P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
>> > natively on these puppies:
>> >      http://www.sunspotworld.com/
>>
>> That's a seriously cool idea.  I just discovered we
>> have a dev kit here at work.  I can't say for sure
>> whether the powers that be will approve of me spending
>> time working on an Inferno port, but I think I can at
>> least take a look in between anything else that comes
>> up.
>>
>> Time to start playing...
>>
>> BLS
>
> $750 seems a tad overpriced.  even for two.
> i may not have seen the cheep link, though.
>
> - erik

Yeah, I wouldn't be getting a set for myself.  But since we've
got a set at work, it's a chance to maybe get paid for doing
some Inferno work.

BLS

Re: [9fans] Grid computing architecture w/ 9P + Java ;-)

[a]

// P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
// natively on these puppies:
//      http://www.sunspotworld.com/

I got myself one of those kits for Christmas last year. My intent
wasn't native Inferno, but rather more like Styx on a Brick: export
the interesting hardware via 9p. I wrote some dummy apps for
the thing and looked at the Java Styx implementations, but it all
took longer than expected (because I don't really know Java,
mainly) and then paying work picked up.

I'd be interested in getting back to work on them if you get to a
point where colaboration would be useful.
Anthony