* [9fans] troff book @ 2011-12-02 13:02 hugo rivera 2011-12-02 13:15 ` simon softnet ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: hugo rivera @ 2011-12-02 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hi, soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use troff. I previously wrote some documents with it, mostly with the ms macro, which I think I'll use for the thesis. Can you advice some book about troff with some introduction on how to write troff macros? Saludos y gracias, -- Hugo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:02 [9fans] troff book hugo rivera @ 2011-12-02 13:15 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 13:23 ` Aharon Robbins ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: simon softnet @ 2011-12-02 13:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hi, I would suggest the -mpm macros: https://131.106.3.253/publications/compsystems/1989/spr_kernighan.pdf It is basically the same as -ms. You can build it in plan 9 troff and you can actually use the resulting binary with heirloom troff as well. Best of luck, Simon. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:02 PM, hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use troff. I > previously wrote some documents with it, mostly with the ms macro, > which I think I'll use for the thesis. Can you advice some book about > troff with some introduction on how to write troff macros? > Saludos y gracias, > > -- > Hugo > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:02 [9fans] troff book hugo rivera 2011-12-02 13:15 ` simon softnet @ 2011-12-02 13:23 ` Aharon Robbins 2011-12-02 13:33 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 2011-12-02 13:40 ` Steve Simon 2011-12-02 17:54 ` John Floren 2011-12-12 9:15 ` Charles Forsyth 3 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Aharon Robbins @ 2011-12-02 13:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:02:29 +0100 > From: hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> > To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> > Subject: [9fans] troff book > > Hi, > soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use troff. I > previously wrote some documents with it, mostly with the ms macro, > which I think I'll use for the thesis. Can you advice some book about > troff with some introduction on how to write troff macros? > Saludos y gracias, > -- > Hugo See http://www.troff.org for a list of books on troff and lots of other related material. Good luck with your thesis! Arnold ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:23 ` Aharon Robbins @ 2011-12-02 13:33 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 2011-12-02 13:40 ` Steve Simon 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Gabriel Díaz López de la llave @ 2011-12-02 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hello This one could be a bit basic for what you want: http://oreilly.com/openbook/utp/ But a groff version source is public, so you might find it useful. slds. gabi 2011/12/2 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com>: >> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:02:29 +0100 >> From: hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> >> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> >> Subject: [9fans] troff book >> >> Hi, >> soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use troff. I >> previously wrote some documents with it, mostly with the ms macro, >> which I think I'll use for the thesis. Can you advice some book about >> troff with some introduction on how to write troff macros? >> Saludos y gracias, >> -- >> Hugo > > See http://www.troff.org for a list of books on troff and lots of other > related material. Good luck with your thesis! > > Arnold > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:23 ` Aharon Robbins 2011-12-02 13:33 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave @ 2011-12-02 13:40 ` Steve Simon 2011-12-02 16:08 ` hugo rivera 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Steve Simon @ 2011-12-02 13:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans By far the best books on troff (IMHO) are the pair by Gehani and Lally, Document Formatting and Typesetting on the Unix system, volume 1 and 2. They are out of print but available from alibris.com and somtimes on amazon new & used. -Steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:40 ` Steve Simon @ 2011-12-02 16:08 ` hugo rivera 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: hugo rivera @ 2011-12-02 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Thanks for the feedback. I'll have a look at some of those books. 2011/12/2 Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>: > By far the best books on troff (IMHO) are the pair by Gehani and Lally, > Document Formatting and Typesetting on the Unix system, volume 1 and 2. > > They are out of print but available from alibris.com and somtimes on > amazon new & used. > > -Steve > -- Hugo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:02 [9fans] troff book hugo rivera 2011-12-02 13:15 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 13:23 ` Aharon Robbins @ 2011-12-02 17:54 ` John Floren 2011-12-02 18:00 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-12 9:15 ` Charles Forsyth 3 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2011-12-02 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:02 AM, hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use troff. I > previously wrote some documents with it, mostly with the ms macro, > which I think I'll use for the thesis. Can you advice some book about > troff with some introduction on how to write troff macros? > Saludos y gracias, > > -- > Hugo > Hi Hugo Having recently written my thesis, I strongly recommend using LaTeX. I love troff, I always enjoy writing short papers (such as my IWP9 submissions) in troff, but I think I would have gone insane writing my thesis without LaTeX. BibTeX alone is a huge incentive for me. Plus, it's quite possible that your school may already have a sample LaTeX thesis for you to work from; in my case, we had a style definition file (.sty) to include in the thesis source, and then a sample document using it. KerTeX is pretty neat, so if you want to write your thesis on Plan 9 it's a good option. John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 17:54 ` John Floren @ 2011-12-02 18:00 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-02 18:13 ` Австин Ким 2011-12-02 18:16 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Francisco J Ballesteros @ 2011-12-02 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I have written books both in latex and in troff. It's a nightmare, no matter in what, to get things like indexes and tocs right. Doing it in troff required me to write a few scripts to generate some of the tables. Doing it in latex required me to write a few scripts to fix up things not handled well by latex (I'm sorry, but don't remember which ones were the actual problems, it was long ago). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:00 ` Francisco J Ballesteros @ 2011-12-02 18:13 ` Австин Ким 2011-12-02 18:21 ` tlaronde 2011-12-02 18:16 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Австин Ким @ 2011-12-02 18:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs IMHO, for anything on the scale of a doctoral dissertation, a better solution would be to develop a native Plan 9 C port of TeX, METAFONT, and LaTeX for Plan 9 from Bell Labs. Troff is ill-suited for typesetting mathematics, as anyone who has tried to use troff to typeset formulas and equations of any complexity will readily attest. All the best. Отправлено с iPhone Dec 2, 2011, в 13:00, Francisco J Ballesteros <nemo@lsub.org> написал(а): > I have written books both in latex and in troff. > It's a nightmare, no matter in what, to get things like > indexes and tocs right. > > Doing it in troff required me to write a few scripts to > generate some of the tables. > > Doing it in latex required me to write a few scripts to > fix up things not handled well by latex (I'm sorry, but don't > remember which ones were the actual problems, it was long ago). > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:13 ` Австин Ким @ 2011-12-02 18:21 ` tlaronde 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-02 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 01:13:37PM -0500, ?????? ??? wrote: > IMHO, for anything on the scale of a doctoral dissertation, a better solution would be to develop a native Plan 9 C port of TeX, METAFONT, and LaTeX for Plan 9 from Bell Labs. Troff is ill-suited for typesetting mathematics, as anyone who has tried to use troff to typeset formulas and equations of any complexity will readily attest. Hum? "a native Plan 9 C port of TeX, METAFONT etc." ---LaTeX is a set of macros, that's all, so is is usable with TeX...---is already done: http://www.kergis.com/en/kertex.html -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:00 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-02 18:13 ` Австин Ким @ 2011-12-02 18:16 ` ron minnich 2011-12-02 18:20 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-02 18:29 ` tlaronde 1 sibling, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2011-12-02 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I've done papers and "books" in latex forever (don't want to say how long). At the time, I was a troff refugee, having gotten annoyed with troff on unix after a few years. when I was at lsub last may, I got used to their nice scripts and such and now would much rather do short papers in troff than anything else. My new rule is < 20 pages, < 1 chapter, no need for complex math, do troff. Else, do latex. Part of the reason is being that the open source community has, as usual, come up with 50 ways to do anything in latex, most incompatible with the other, and in many cases latex and pdflatex are mutually exclusive: latex and pdflatex either fail to produce the same output, or, worse, can not accept the same input. tex/latex, once clean and small, are now a beast, like unto most other open source stuff nowadays. Troff has the virtue of having changed little in that time. Now if someone can do a set of IEEE macros for troff .... Irony alert! The Bell Labs journal now requires submissions in *word*. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:16 ` ron minnich @ 2011-12-02 18:20 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-02 18:29 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 2011-12-02 18:29 ` tlaronde 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Francisco J Ballesteros @ 2011-12-02 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Could be worse, they might require using IE on Windows 7 to submit them. Or perhaps they already do? On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:16 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > Irony alert! The Bell Labs journal now requires submissions in *word*. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:20 ` Francisco J Ballesteros @ 2011-12-02 18:29 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Lyndon Nerenberg @ 2011-12-02 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Could be worse, they might require using IE on Windows 7 to submit them. > Or perhaps they already do? Silverlight runs on Macs, too. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:16 ` ron minnich 2011-12-02 18:20 ` Francisco J Ballesteros @ 2011-12-02 18:29 ` tlaronde 2011-12-02 18:45 ` John Floren 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-02 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:16:26AM -0800, ron minnich wrote: >[...] > tex/latex, once clean and small, are now a beast, Uh! There are days when I wonder why I have done kerTeX... (well, I know why: because _I_ use it!). Do you know that kerTeX has everything, including BibTeX (hell to fix!) and can "do" LaTeX and also AMSTeX and "Comptes-rendus de l'Académie des Sciences" (based on LaTeX) and so on. And it is small since I have sent 99% of the crap to the biggest storage till now and forever: /dev/null. There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) http://www.kergis.com/en/kertex.html -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:29 ` tlaronde @ 2011-12-02 18:45 ` John Floren 2011-12-02 21:02 ` tlaronde 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2011-12-02 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:16:26AM -0800, ron minnich wrote: >>[...] >> tex/latex, once clean and small, are now a beast, > > Uh! There are days when I wonder why I have done kerTeX... (well, I know > why: because _I_ use it!). Do you know that kerTeX has everything, > including BibTeX (hell to fix!) and can "do" LaTeX and also AMSTeX and > "Comptes-rendus de l'Académie des Sciences" (based on LaTeX) and so on. > > And it is small since I have sent 99% of the crap to the biggest storage > till now and forever: /dev/null. kerTeX is awesome! Anybody doing typesetting on Plan 9 (or even on Linux/*BSD) should try grab it. > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) > Ah, I think that was due to me... I read http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they take a look at kerTeX :) John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 18:45 ` John Floren @ 2011-12-02 21:02 ` tlaronde 2011-12-02 22:24 ` simon softnet 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-02 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:45:24AM -0800, John Floren wrote: > > > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was > > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel > > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) > > > > Ah, I think that was due to me... I read > http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they > take a look at kerTeX :) Yes, you were one of the two (the other one has identified himself now... ;)). [I suspected this from the initials of the author of the mail.] And for others, BTW, if LaTeX sure works, it's because John was brave enough to try and not to give up after initial errors. Thanks! -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 21:02 ` tlaronde @ 2011-12-02 22:24 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 22:29 ` simon softnet 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: simon softnet @ 2011-12-02 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I have written my bachelor's thesis (80 pages with graphs, tables, diagrams, equations, etc..) in pure troff -me. It went as smooth as I could ever hope for. LaTeX is much more difficult to use, IMO. Simon. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:02 PM, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:45:24AM -0800, John Floren wrote: >> >> > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was >> > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel >> > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) >> > >> >> Ah, I think that was due to me... I read >> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they >> take a look at kerTeX :) > > Yes, you were one of the two (the other one has identified himself > now... ;)). [I suspected this from the initials of the author of the > mail.] > > And for others, BTW, if LaTeX sure works, it's because John was > brave enough to try and not to give up after initial errors. > > Thanks! > -- > Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> > http://www.kergis.com/ > Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 22:24 ` simon softnet @ 2011-12-02 22:29 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 22:42 ` hugo rivera 2011-12-11 22:57 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: simon softnet @ 2011-12-02 22:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs By the way, I am currently forced to use LaTeX. It's because formulas look nicer, and also because my current supervisor asks me to. I was thinking of writing a program that accepts a file formated with -ms or -me macros and translates it to LaTeX equivalent macros. This way, I would hopefully have the best of both worlds: the elegance of troff syntax and the neatness of TeX output. Is anyone interested in helping me out? Simon. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com> wrote: > I have written my bachelor's thesis (80 pages with graphs, tables, > diagrams, equations, etc..) in pure troff -me. > It went as smooth as I could ever hope for. > LaTeX is much more difficult to use, IMO. > > Simon. > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:02 PM, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:45:24AM -0800, John Floren wrote: >>> >>> > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was >>> > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel >>> > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) >>> > >>> >>> Ah, I think that was due to me... I read >>> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they >>> take a look at kerTeX :) >> >> Yes, you were one of the two (the other one has identified himself >> now... ;)). [I suspected this from the initials of the author of the >> mail.] >> >> And for others, BTW, if LaTeX sure works, it's because John was >> brave enough to try and not to give up after initial errors. >> >> Thanks! >> -- >> Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> >> http://www.kergis.com/ >> Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C >> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 22:29 ` simon softnet @ 2011-12-02 22:42 ` hugo rivera 2011-12-03 1:26 ` Akshat Kumar 2011-12-11 22:57 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: hugo rivera @ 2011-12-02 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I think I'll reconsider using troff for my thesis, because some math is sure to come across. But learning more about troff is indeed useful. 2011/12/2 simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com>: > By the way, I am currently forced to use LaTeX. > It's because formulas look nicer, and also because my current > supervisor asks me to. > > I was thinking of writing a program that accepts a file formated with > -ms or -me macros and translates it to LaTeX equivalent macros. This > way, I would hopefully have the best of both worlds: the elegance of > troff syntax and the neatness of TeX output. > Is anyone interested in helping me out? > > Simon. > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com> wrote: >> I have written my bachelor's thesis (80 pages with graphs, tables, >> diagrams, equations, etc..) in pure troff -me. >> It went as smooth as I could ever hope for. >> LaTeX is much more difficult to use, IMO. >> >> Simon. >> >> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:02 PM, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:45:24AM -0800, John Floren wrote: >>>> >>>> > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was >>>> > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel >>>> > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) >>>> > >>>> >>>> Ah, I think that was due to me... I read >>>> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they >>>> take a look at kerTeX :) >>> >>> Yes, you were one of the two (the other one has identified himself >>> now... ;)). [I suspected this from the initials of the author of the >>> mail.] >>> >>> And for others, BTW, if LaTeX sure works, it's because John was >>> brave enough to try and not to give up after initial errors. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> -- >>> Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> >>> http://www.kergis.com/ >>> Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C >>> > -- Hugo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 22:42 ` hugo rivera @ 2011-12-03 1:26 ` Akshat Kumar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Akshat Kumar @ 2011-12-03 1:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I've written some math papers in troff. I spent less time doing math and more time tinkering with troff, to get things to show up properly. LaTeX looks prettier still, but handling UTF-8 in the source goes a long way towards legibility (especially if you have to come back to it after a while). I also ported Lout (contrib/akumar/lout.tgz) to Plan 9. It looks even prettier, and the source files end up looking much prettier than LaTeX. However, there is no UTF-8 support. ak On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:42 PM, hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> wrote: > I think I'll reconsider using troff for my thesis, because some math > is sure to come across. But learning more about troff is indeed > useful. > > 2011/12/2 simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com>: >> By the way, I am currently forced to use LaTeX. >> It's because formulas look nicer, and also because my current >> supervisor asks me to. >> >> I was thinking of writing a program that accepts a file formated with >> -ms or -me macros and translates it to LaTeX equivalent macros. This >> way, I would hopefully have the best of both worlds: the elegance of >> troff syntax and the neatness of TeX output. >> Is anyone interested in helping me out? >> >> Simon. >> >> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I have written my bachelor's thesis (80 pages with graphs, tables, >>> diagrams, equations, etc..) in pure troff -me. >>> It went as smooth as I could ever hope for. >>> LaTeX is much more difficult to use, IMO. >>> >>> Simon. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:02 PM, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote: >>>> On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:45:24AM -0800, John Floren wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was >>>>> > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel >>>>> > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Ah, I think that was due to me... I read >>>>> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they >>>>> take a look at kerTeX :) >>>> >>>> Yes, you were one of the two (the other one has identified himself >>>> now... ;)). [I suspected this from the initials of the author of the >>>> mail.] >>>> >>>> And for others, BTW, if LaTeX sure works, it's because John was >>>> brave enough to try and not to give up after initial errors. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> -- >>>> Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> >>>> http://www.kergis.com/ >>>> Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C >>>> >> > > > > -- > Hugo > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 22:29 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 22:42 ` hugo rivera @ 2011-12-11 22:57 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Gabriel Díaz López de la llave @ 2011-12-11 22:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hello You might be interested in this: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/tr2latex slds. gabi 2011/12/2 simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com>: > By the way, I am currently forced to use LaTeX. > It's because formulas look nicer, and also because my current > supervisor asks me to. > > I was thinking of writing a program that accepts a file formated with > -ms or -me macros and translates it to LaTeX equivalent macros. This > way, I would hopefully have the best of both worlds: the elegance of > troff syntax and the neatness of TeX output. > Is anyone interested in helping me out? > > Simon. > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, simon softnet <ph.softnet@gmail.com> wrote: >> I have written my bachelor's thesis (80 pages with graphs, tables, >> diagrams, equations, etc..) in pure troff -me. >> It went as smooth as I could ever hope for. >> LaTeX is much more difficult to use, IMO. >> >> Simon. >> >> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:02 PM, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:45:24AM -0800, John Floren wrote: >>>> >>>> > There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was >>>> > looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel >>>> > named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) >>>> > >>>> >>>> Ah, I think that was due to me... I read >>>> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they >>>> take a look at kerTeX :) >>> >>> Yes, you were one of the two (the other one has identified himself >>> now... ;)). [I suspected this from the initials of the author of the >>> mail.] >>> >>> And for others, BTW, if LaTeX sure works, it's because John was >>> brave enough to try and not to give up after initial errors. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> -- >>> Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> >>> http://www.kergis.com/ >>> Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C >>> > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-02 13:02 [9fans] troff book hugo rivera ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2011-12-02 17:54 ` John Floren @ 2011-12-12 9:15 ` Charles Forsyth 2011-12-12 9:59 ` simon softnet 2011-12-12 10:28 ` John Stalker 3 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2011-12-12 9:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1963 bytes --] Having read the replies, I thought I'd offer slightly different advice. You are writing a dissertation. The formatting just needs to be what satisfies your university's format requirements, which usually are broad. I'd be surprised if they required an index for instance. Don't waste time and effort on the formatting. For one thing, few people will actually read your dissertation, unless what you're doing is stupendous (and then they won't care about the format): your proof-reader (you have got one, haven't you?), your supervisor, your examiners, and ... that's usually about it. (Your parents will look at it.) If your supervisor supervisor can start fussing about the prettiness of (say) your equations and tables rather than their content, you can reasonably suggest to him that you would appear to be finished. Just do a few test runs first of typical equations just to check that the output is at least reasonable. Much later, when your topic turns out to be important again, someone like me will remember seeing your dissertation mentioned, or find it through Google^, but I can assure you that by we'll still be more interested in the content. I'd use the system with which you're most familiar. You don't want the added distractions of trying to debug the typesetting software, and when something goes wrong, it's much easier if you've used it before. (In my own case, the night of the submission deadline, when I came to do the final copy, I discovered that the troff installation Had Somehow Changed and the output was completely messed up. Unfortunately that predated Plan 9 and yesterday(1), but fortunately it's easy to check each stage of the pipeline, and I could work out where to look for the change to undo. If you're using troff, pick up a copy of refer from contrib. On 2 December 2011 13:02, hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> wrote: > soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use ... [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2565 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 9:15 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2011-12-12 9:59 ` simon softnet 2011-12-12 10:28 ` John Stalker 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: simon softnet @ 2011-12-12 9:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs It's funny how this reply came at the right time for me. I'm writing a thesis proposal and was wasting all this time trying out different latex templates. Simon. On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote: > Having read the replies, I thought I'd offer slightly different advice. > You are writing a dissertation. The formatting just needs to be what > satisfies your university's format requirements, which usually are > broad. I'd be surprised if they required an index for instance. Don't > waste time and effort on the formatting. For one thing, few people > will actually read your dissertation, unless what you're doing is > stupendous (and then they won't care about the format): your proof-reader > (you have got one, haven't you?), your supervisor, your examiners, > and ... that's usually about it. (Your parents will look at it.) If your > supervisor > supervisor can start fussing about the prettiness of (say) your equations > and tables rather than their content, you can reasonably suggest to him that > you > would appear to be finished. Just do a few test runs first of typical > equations > just to check that the output is at least reasonable. > > Much later, when your topic turns out to be important again, someone like > me will remember seeing your dissertation mentioned, or find it through > Google^, > but I can assure you that by we'll still be more interested in the content. > > I'd use the system with which you're most familiar. You don't want the > added distractions of trying to debug the typesetting software, and when > something goes wrong, it's much easier if you've used it before. (In my own > case, the night of the submission deadline, when I came to do > the final copy, I discovered that the troff installation Had Somehow Changed > and the output was completely messed up. Unfortunately that predated Plan 9 > and yesterday(1), > but fortunately it's easy to check each stage of the pipeline, and > I could work out where to look for the change to undo. > > If you're using troff, pick up a copy of refer from contrib. > > On 2 December 2011 13:02, hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use ... > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 9:15 ` Charles Forsyth 2011-12-12 9:59 ` simon softnet @ 2011-12-12 10:28 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 10:52 ` Rudolf Sykora 2011-12-12 12:18 ` Charles Forsyth 1 sibling, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: John Stalker @ 2011-12-12 10:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs As a thesis advisor myself, though not of this thesis, I would say that the advice below might or might not be correct, depending on field of study. I have some affection for troff, but TeX and its progeny really do produce much nicer looking equations. In a field where equations are usually simple and there are only one or two per page there is no reason not to use eqn|troff. In something like Mathematics or Theoretical Physics, where equations can be quite complex and are everywhere, you really want to use some TeX variant. Using eqn|troff would be like using MS Comic Sans for the text. Yes, the content is the same, but the form would make you look eccentric or incompetent. It's true the few people read theses, but that's no reason to piss them off unnecessarily, since they decide whether you get a degree or not. > Having read the replies, I thought I'd offer slightly different advice. > You are writing a dissertation. The formatting just needs to be what > satisfies your university's format requirements, which usually are > broad. I'd be surprised if they required an index for instance. Don't > waste time and effort on the formatting. For one thing, few people > will actually read your dissertation, unless what you're doing is > stupendous (and then they won't care about the format): your proof-reader > (you have got one, haven't you?), your supervisor, your examiners, > and ... that's usually about it. (Your parents will look at it.) If your > supervisor > supervisor can start fussing about the prettiness of (say) your equations > and tables rather than their content, you can reasonably suggest to him > that you > would appear to be finished. Just do a few test runs first of typical > equations > just to check that the output is at least reasonable. > > Much later, when your topic turns out to be important again, someone like > me will remember seeing your dissertation mentioned, or find it through > Google^, > but I can assure you that by we'll still be more interested in the content. > > I'd use the system with which you're most familiar. You don't want the > added distractions of trying to debug the typesetting software, and when > something goes wrong, it's much easier if you've used it before. (In my own > case, the night of the submission deadline, when I came to do > the final copy, I discovered that the troff installation Had Somehow Changed > and the output was completely messed up. Unfortunately that predated Plan 9 > and yesterday(1), > but fortunately it's easy to check each stage of the pipeline, and > I could work out where to look for the change to undo. > > If you're using troff, pick up a copy of refer from contrib. -- John Stalker School of Mathematics Trinity College Dublin tel +353 1 896 1983 fax +353 1 896 2282 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 10:28 ` John Stalker @ 2011-12-12 10:52 ` Rudolf Sykora 2011-12-12 12:04 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 12:18 ` Charles Forsyth 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Rudolf Sykora @ 2011-12-12 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Hello, On 12 December 2011 11:28, John Stalker <stalker@maths.tcd.ie> wrote: > As a thesis advisor myself, though not of this thesis, I would say that > the advice below might or might not be correct, depending on field of > study. I have some affection for troff, but TeX and its progeny really > do produce much nicer looking equations. In a field where equations > are usually simple and there are only one or two per page there is no > reason not to use eqn|troff. In something like Mathematics or Theoretical > Physics, where equations can be quite complex and are everywhere, you > really want to use some TeX variant. Using eqn|troff would be like using > MS Comic Sans for the text. Yes, the content is the same, but the form > would make you look eccentric or incompetent. It's true the few people > read theses, but that's no reason to piss them off unnecessarily, since > they decide whether you get a degree or not. Funnily enough, I've been trying to write my PhD thesis on Theoretical Physics using eqn|troff. In my life I've read so much shitty work written in LaTeX (i.e. nicely typeset, but ...) that, perhaps, I want to differentiate. And as I mentioned some time ago, writing math in the eqn language is just so much superior feeling for me, especially when typing unicode characters is possible. On the other hand, the truth is that the situation in plan9 troff/gs world is not good. Not good font coverage for math (e.g. bra-ket signs), not a suitable ps viewer, ... Ruda ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 10:52 ` Rudolf Sykora @ 2011-12-12 12:04 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 12:37 ` tlaronde 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: John Stalker @ 2011-12-12 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Funnily enough, I've been trying to write my PhD thesis on Theoretical > Physics using eqn|troff. > In my life I've read so much shitty work written in LaTeX (i.e. nicely > typeset, but ...) that, perhaps, I want to differentiate. > And as I mentioned some time ago, writing math in the eqn language is > just so much superior feeling for me, especially when typing unicode > characters is possible. > > On the other hand, the truth is that the situation in plan9 troff/gs > world is not good. Not good font coverage for math (e.g. bra-ket > signs), not a suitable ps viewer, ... > > Ruda Although this is getting a little off topic, I sympathize. I think we need to distinguish three things: the input languages, the general architecture of the programs, and the typesetting engines themselves. I think troff wins on the first two. The language has its minor annoyances, but fewer than TeX and its descendents. The architecture is also better. Outsourcing equations and tables makes it easier, though still quite hard, to figure out what is going wrong sometimes. Also, LaTeX's use of .aux files in both input and output plays havoc with make. Where TeX wins is in the actual typesetting of equations. That's one reason why I went back to LaTeX after using eqn|troff for a few months. The other reason is that using troff makes collaboration nearly impossible, as no one else is willing to use it. John -- John Stalker School of Mathematics Trinity College Dublin tel +353 1 896 1983 fax +353 1 896 2282 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 12:04 ` John Stalker @ 2011-12-12 12:37 ` tlaronde 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-12 12:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 01:04:47PM +0100, John Stalker wrote: >[...] > Also, LaTeX's use of .aux files in both input and output plays havoc > with make. Where TeX wins is in the actual typesetting of equations. > That's one reason why I went back to LaTeX after using eqn|troff > for a few months. The other reason is that using troff makes > collaboration nearly impossible, as no one else is willing to use it. LaTeX != TeX. LaTeX is another example of "best is good' foe" ("Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien"). There are some constructions that plain TeX---the set of macros designed by D.E. Knuth---does not help to produce. But LaTeX has not only eased some common things, but built a kind of huge framework that render finding "what does what" difficult if not impossible. If it takes more time to learn how to use (superficially) an extension riding piggy-back on an engine than learning how the engine works and how to program it, there is a problem. All what LaTeX does, finally, for typesetting is what TeX does. One can do mathematics with TeX using plain TeX and the AMS supplementary fonts. It took me far less time to master Donald E. Knuth's Typesetting series than to try to read the LaTeX documentation. And I'm now totally autonomous. And that's probably why I was able to do kerTeX: I didn't care about the multi-mouths Hydra shouting "GPL!" in front of the community's TeX "organised" in the Augean Stables. Wizardry and Magic disappear as soon as one knows the tricks. And if you read---carefully...-the TeXbook, you know all you has to know. The missing part is the "administration" of the software: how to compile and install. But this is what kerTeX is for: give easily people the software, having then just to use it according to D.E.K.'s books. -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 10:28 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 10:52 ` Rudolf Sykora @ 2011-12-12 12:18 ` Charles Forsyth 2011-12-12 12:42 ` John Stalker 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2011-12-12 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 511 bytes --] come to think of it, contemporary layout restrictions did rob us of Fermat's own proof of his theorem. more seriously, yes, of course you're going to have to select a formatting system that can cope with what you need to express. equations are one thing. the things that never, ever work well for me in computer-assisted typesetting are drawing, unless they are very simple or i am very lucky. On 12 December 2011 10:28, John Stalker <stalker@maths.tcd.ie> wrote: > In something like Mathematics [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 771 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 12:18 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2011-12-12 12:42 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 14:10 ` Michael Kerpan ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: John Stalker @ 2011-12-12 12:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > come to think of it, contemporary layout restrictions did rob us of > Fermat's own proof of his theorem. > more seriously, yes, of course you're going to have to select a formatting > system that can > cope with what you need to express. equations are one thing. the things > that never, ever work well > for me in computer-assisted typesetting are drawing, unless they are very > simple or i am very lucky. For drawing, nothing beats rolling your own PostScript. Which leads me to a complaint about both TeX and troff. Both will happily typeset whole PostScript documents, but extreme trickery is needed to get them to produce fragments which can be inserted into hand rolled diagrams. -- John Stalker School of Mathematics Trinity College Dublin tel +353 1 896 1983 fax +353 1 896 2282 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 12:42 ` John Stalker @ 2011-12-12 14:10 ` Michael Kerpan 2011-12-12 17:46 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 17:48 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 19:22 ` Bakul Shah 2 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Michael Kerpan @ 2011-12-12 14:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Plain TeX (which is what KerTeX offers by default) doesn't seem that complex, but it does have the disadvantage of not offering much of a separation between format and content. Both LaTeX and some of the more sophisticated troff macro packages do a better job of allowing "structured" editing. Also, what level of font support is available in KerTeX and Plan 9 troff? I'm assuming that neither offers the level of "plug and play" support for modern Opentype fonts that can be found in XeTeX and Heirloom troff, but how are they otherwise? Mike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 14:10 ` Michael Kerpan @ 2011-12-12 17:46 ` tlaronde 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-12 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mjkerpan, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 09:10:44AM -0500, Michael Kerpan wrote: > Plain TeX (which is what KerTeX offers by default) doesn't seem that > complex, but it does have the disadvantage of not offering much of a > separation between format and content. Both LaTeX and some of the more > sophisticated troff macro packages do a better job of allowing > "structured" editing. What I mean is that if you know how it works, you can build your own macro set allowing "structured editing"---that's indeed what I do: MisTeX (my own macro set) does some apparent structuring but riding a lot piggy-back on Plain TeX for low level details. > > Also, what level of font support is available in KerTeX and Plan 9 > troff? I'm assuming that neither offers the level of "plug and play" > support for modern Opentype fonts that can be found in XeTeX and > Heirloom troff, but how are they otherwise? There are different things. First, if one has T1 fonts, everything is here in kerTeX to be able to use these fonts with TeX---as an example, the post-install script uses the core PostScript fonts. The main problem today---and you cite XeTeX not LaTeX: this means that "traditionnal" TeX packages are not better---is that TeX uses CID in a 8bit range, and not utf-8. This is the main problem, more than writing a program à la afm2tfm(1) generating metrics information for TeX to be able to use the fonts. TeX already uses alien fonts; but limited to an 8bit range---what are the T1 core PostScript fonts. -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 12:42 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 14:10 ` Michael Kerpan @ 2011-12-12 17:48 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 18:42 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 19:22 ` Bakul Shah 2 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-12 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 01:42:11PM +0100, John Stalker wrote: > > For drawing, nothing beats rolling your own PostScript. Which leads > me to a complaint about both TeX and troff. Both will happily typeset > whole PostScript documents, but extreme trickery is needed to get them > to produce fragments which can be inserted into hand rolled diagrams. MetaPost allows you precisely to draw things (generating PostScript) using TeX for the formatting of TeX---it can also use troff for the formatting. And it is in kerTeX. MetaPost is really great! -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 17:48 ` tlaronde @ 2011-12-12 18:42 ` tlaronde 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: tlaronde @ 2011-12-12 18:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 06:48:52PM +0100, tlaronde wrote: > > using TeX for the formatting of TeX---it can also use troff for the > formatting. "using TeX for the formatting of text" of course. -- Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com> http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 12:42 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 14:10 ` Michael Kerpan 2011-12-12 17:48 ` tlaronde @ 2011-12-12 19:22 ` Bakul Shah 2011-12-12 19:45 ` Steve Simon 2 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2011-12-12 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs For drawings I just use a graphical editor that can output TeX or EPS (or roll my own - but haven't needed that in many years). For text TeXworks with its side by side display of raw text and formatted output provides quick feedback to get some formatting details right. Switching to XeTeX also means I can use Unicode and not some ugly transliteration. With this setup I can focus on content for the most part. On Dec 12, 2011, at 4:42 AM, John Stalker <stalker@maths.tcd.ie> wrote: >> come to think of it, contemporary layout restrictions did rob us of >> Fermat's own proof of his theorem. >> more seriously, yes, of course you're going to have to select a formatting >> system that can >> cope with what you need to express. equations are one thing. the things >> that never, ever work well >> for me in computer-assisted typesetting are drawing, unless they are very >> simple or i am very lucky. > > For drawing, nothing beats rolling your own PostScript. Which leads > me to a complaint about both TeX and troff. Both will happily typeset > whole PostScript documents, but extreme trickery is needed to get them > to produce fragments which can be inserted into hand rolled diagrams. > > -- > John Stalker > School of Mathematics > Trinity College Dublin > tel +353 1 896 1983 > fax +353 1 896 2282 > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] troff book 2011-12-12 19:22 ` Bakul Shah @ 2011-12-12 19:45 ` Steve Simon 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Steve Simon @ 2011-12-12 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I have used art(1) to generate pic(1) for some drawings. several people have tried to port art(1) - which was in the 2nd edition and released by the labs in extras. I collected their changes and add a couple of small fixes of my own - in my contrib. My biggest problem with art is its interface is... not what I am used to from using windows apps. I am not saying its bad its just different and needs a mental switch to use it. It was Ok, but a little painful for the few drawings I needed, I'am sure it would get easier if I used it more. -Steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-12-12 19:45 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 35+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-12-02 13:02 [9fans] troff book hugo rivera 2011-12-02 13:15 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 13:23 ` Aharon Robbins 2011-12-02 13:33 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 2011-12-02 13:40 ` Steve Simon 2011-12-02 16:08 ` hugo rivera 2011-12-02 17:54 ` John Floren 2011-12-02 18:00 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-02 18:13 ` Австин Ким 2011-12-02 18:21 ` tlaronde 2011-12-02 18:16 ` ron minnich 2011-12-02 18:20 ` Francisco J Ballesteros 2011-12-02 18:29 ` Lyndon Nerenberg 2011-12-02 18:29 ` tlaronde 2011-12-02 18:45 ` John Floren 2011-12-02 21:02 ` tlaronde 2011-12-02 22:24 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 22:29 ` simon softnet 2011-12-02 22:42 ` hugo rivera 2011-12-03 1:26 ` Akshat Kumar 2011-12-11 22:57 ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave 2011-12-12 9:15 ` Charles Forsyth 2011-12-12 9:59 ` simon softnet 2011-12-12 10:28 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 10:52 ` Rudolf Sykora 2011-12-12 12:04 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 12:37 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 12:18 ` Charles Forsyth 2011-12-12 12:42 ` John Stalker 2011-12-12 14:10 ` Michael Kerpan 2011-12-12 17:46 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 17:48 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 18:42 ` tlaronde 2011-12-12 19:22 ` Bakul Shah 2011-12-12 19:45 ` Steve Simon
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