[9fans] Fonts

[9fans] Fonts

[skipt]

Is there a way to import TrueType fonts? How about X .bdf's?

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Russ Cox]

I don't think it would be too hard to adapt FreeType
to be used to provide access to TrueType and Type1 fonts.
The main issue that I don't understand is how to properly
handle the Unicode character set; surely there is some
comment inside the font files telling the encoding, and I
expect you'd end up using description files just like we
have today (cat $font).

X bitmap fonts should be a bit easier -- just convert
them into Plan 9 images, reorder the characters appropriately,
and write a description file.

For very small and even normal-sized terminal fonts,
I think the Lucida fonts that Plan 9 uses are the clearest
choice you've got, although I can imagine that if you
wanted to write a WYSIAYG editor of sorts, you'd need
some sort of rescalable fonts.

Russ

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Fariborz Tavakkolian]

My immediate goal was to import bitmaps of the glyphs in Farsi
alphabet and to fillin the fonts in those unicode ranges. Longer term
goal is to import the curve descriptions for scaling of the glyphs (MAYBE).

Later it might be useful to import things like OpenType's shaping
information (sounds more grandiose than it is).  These are intstructions
for writing systems like Arabic, where, depending on a letter's location in
a word, one of upto 4 character variations can be used.

On second thought, it seems that "shaping" would properly belong in the
editing or input mechanism, as would the support for writing right-to-left.

At 01:41 PM 1/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't think it would be too hard to adapt FreeType
>to be used to provide access to TrueType and Type1 fonts.
>The main issue that I don't understand is how to properly
>handle the Unicode character set; surely there is some
>comment inside the font files telling the encoding, and I
>expect you'd end up using description files just like we
>have today (cat $font).
>
>X bitmap fonts should be a bit easier -- just convert
>them into Plan 9 images, reorder the characters appropriately,
>and write a description file.
>
>For very small and even normal-sized terminal fonts,
>I think the Lucida fonts that Plan 9 uses are the clearest
>choice you've got, although I can imagine that if you
>wanted to write a WYSIAYG editor of sorts, you'd need
>some sort of rescalable fonts.
>
>Russ
>
>

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[forsyth]

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i had an older freetype running under older plan 9
several years ago.  i'm currently making freetype 2
work.  the freetype library is done but i'm still converting
the older freetype conversion program.  the freetype
interface has changed quite a bit and the documentation
i've got is less helpful than manual pages, and the example
i used last time hasn't yet been updated.


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To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] Fonts
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:41:28 -0500
Message-ID: <20020107184129.B19A719A02@mail.cse.psu.edu>

I don't think it would be too hard to adapt FreeType
to be used to provide access to TrueType and Type1 fonts.
The main issue that I don't understand is how to properly
handle the Unicode character set; surely there is some
comment inside the font files telling the encoding, and I
expect you'd end up using description files just like we
have today (cat $font).

X bitmap fonts should be a bit easier -- just convert
them into Plan 9 images, reorder the characters appropriately,
and write a description file.

For very small and even normal-sized terminal fonts,
I think the Lucida fonts that Plan 9 uses are the clearest
choice you've got, although I can imagine that if you
wanted to write a WYSIAYG editor of sorts, you'd need
some sort of rescalable fonts.

Russ

[9fans] Fonts

[Devon H. O'Dell]

I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.

But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).

--dho

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Joseph Stewart]

I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
nose laughing.

-joe

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell<devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>
> --dho
>
>

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Joseph Stewart]

I think I'll start all of my work correspondence with this sentence. ;-).

-joe

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Joseph Stewart<joseph.stewart@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
> nose laughing.
>
> -joe
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell<devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
>> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>>
>> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
>> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
>> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>>
>> --dho
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[J. R. Mauro]

On Jul 8, 2009, at 15:00, "Devon H. O'Dell" <devon.odell@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>
> --dho
>

TeX fonts are done in METAFONT, a system that describes fonts in terms
of bezier curves, brush and eraser strokes. Not very popular amongst
people who suck at math.

AFAIK, most fonts are just drawn and converted to bitmaps.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Bakul Shah]

> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).

Start with fontforge & its wikipedia page.  What exactly are
you trying to do?  Tengwar has already been done :-)

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Josh Wood]

On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).

Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata.  There is a ttf2subf program
(http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
Fontforge product for Plan 9.  Erik has used that program or similar
to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
may be in his contrib directory.

-Josh

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[erik quanstrom]

> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata.  There is a ttf2subf program
> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
> Fontforge product for Plan 9.  Erik has used that program or similar
> to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
> may be in his contrib directory.

s/may be/is.  it's the contrib package quanstro/icons
terrible name.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[J. R. Mauro]

On Jul 8, 2009, at 16:05, Josh Wood <josh@utopian.net> wrote:

>
> On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> Does
>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>
> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata.  There is a ttf2subf program
> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
> Fontforge product for Plan 9.  Erik has used that program or similar
> to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
> may be in his contrib directory.
>
> -Josh
>

Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[erik quanstrom]

> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
> Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
> that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.

maybe this is your problem:

; unicode '`'
0060
; look 0060 /lib/unicode
0060	grave accent

unicode says it's a grave accent, not an open quote.
but i always called that a "tick".

perhaps this is what you mean?

; grep '(left|right) single quot' /lib/unicode
2018	left single quotation mark
2019	right single quotation mark

- erik

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[J.R. Mauro]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:44 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
>> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
>> Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
>> that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
>
> maybe this is your problem:
>
> ; unicode '`'
> 0060
> ; look 0060 /lib/unicode
> 0060    grave accent
>
> unicode says it's a grave accent, not an open quote.
> but i always called that a "tick".
>
> perhaps this is what you mean?
>
> ; grep '(left|right) single quot' /lib/unicode
> 2018    left single quotation mark
> 2019    right single quotation mark
>
> - erik
>
>

Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
generally look the same.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[erik quanstrom]

> Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
> accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
> of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
> generally look the same.

that's hard.  i haven't found one yet that looks good in
both a browser and in plan 9.  i use code2000.  but i would
buy a "better" font, if there were one available.

i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
for linux) but the coverage is very poor.  π is the only
greek letter available.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[J.R. Mauro]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:51 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
>> accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
>> of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
>> generally look the same.
>
> that's hard.  i haven't found one yet that looks good in
> both a browser and in plan 9.  i use code2000.  but i would
> buy a "better" font, if there were one available.
>
> i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
> for linux) but the coverage is very poor.  π is the only
> greek letter available.
>
> - erik
>
>

There are no ttf/Xft/$format versions of the Bigelow and Holmes lucida
fonts? The Ludica typefaces available on Linux are definitely not the
same -- much poorer quality.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:51:58 -0400
erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
> for linux) but the coverage is very poor.  π is the only
> greek letter available.

Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or Bitstream Charter.

Odd thing is if I use hget or curl to get the page I get a lot of nulls. The page is encoded in utf-8 so I don't know what the google.gr servers might be doing.

-- 
Ethan Grammatikidis

Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[erik quanstrom]

> Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or Bitstream Charter

i don't recall.  the date on the original conversion from .ttf is 2005.

> Odd thing is if I use hget or curl to get the page I get a lot of nulls. The page is encoded in utf-8 so I don't know what the google.gr servers might be doing.

; hget  http://google.gr/
<!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">

i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Russ Cox]

This conversation reminded me that I have been
meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
and integrate it into plan9port.  It generates Plan 9
bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
system fonts.  Right now it only works on OS X.
I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes.


     FONTSRV(4)                                             FONTSRV(4)

     NAME
          fontsrv - file system access to host fonts

     SYNOPSIS
          fontsrv [ -m mtpt ] [ -s srvname ]

          fontsrv -p path

     DESCRIPTION
          Fontsrv presents the host window system's fonts in the stan-
          dard Plan 9 format (see font(7)). It serves a virtual direc-
          tory tree mounted at mtpt (if the -m option is given) and
          posted at srvname (default font).

          The -p option changes fontsrv's behavior: rather than serve
          a file system, fontsrv prints to standard output the con-
          tents of the named path. If path names a directory in the
          served file system, fontsrv lists the directory's contents.

          The fonts are arranged in a two-level tree.  The root con-
          tains directories named for each system font.  Each font
          directory contains subdirectories named for a point size and
          whether the subfonts are anti-aliased: 10 (bitmap) 10a
          (anti-aliased greyscale) 12, 12a, and so on.  The font
          directory will synthesize additional sizes on demand: look-
          ing up 19a will synthesize the 19-point anti-aliased size if
          possible.  Each size directory contains a font file and sub-
          font files named x0000.bit, x0100.bit, and so on represent-
          ing 256-character Unicode ranges.

          Openfont (see graphics(3)) recognizes font paths beginning
          with /mnt/font and implements them by invoking fontsrv; it
          need not be running already.

     EXAMPLES
          List the fonts on the system:

               % fontsrv &
               % 9p ls font

          or:

               % fontsrv -p .

          Run acme(1) using the operating system's Monaco as the
          fixed-width font:

               % acme -F /mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font

          Run sam(1) using the same font:

               % font=/mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font sam

     SOURCE
          /usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/fontsrv

     SEE ALSO
          font(7)

     BUGS
          Due to OS X restrictions, fontsrv does not fork itself into
          the background when serving a user-level file system.

          Fontsrv has no support for X11 fonts; on X11 systems, it
          will serve an empty top-level directory.

          On OS X, the anti-aliased bitmaps are not perfect.  For
          example, the lower case r in the subfont
          Times-Roman/14a/x0000.bit appears truncated on the right and
          too light overall.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:25:17 -0700
Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> This conversation reminded me that I have been
> meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
> and integrate it into plan9port.  It generates Plan 9
> bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
> system fonts.  Right now it only works on OS X.
> I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes.

Nifty idea but I have to ask what kind of X11 font support? There is the original old-school X font service, but it seems few actively-developed apps use that now. Most rely on fontconfig which only works with direct use of freetype by the application, or something like that. The two systems may be configured with completely different font paths at any rate. Modern yewnicks is _fun_. *shudders*

--
Ethan Grammatikidis

Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[David Leimbach]

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Just tried this from the mercurial snapshot from last night.
fontsrv appears to work but complains about fuse not being set up properly.

Does this mean acme is not going to work?

Should I be asking this on the plan9port mailing list?

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> This conversation reminded me that I have been
> meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
> and integrate it into plan9port.  It generates Plan 9
> bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
> system fonts.  Right now it only works on OS X.
> I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes.
>
>
>     FONTSRV(4)                                             FONTSRV(4)
>
>     NAME
>          fontsrv - file system access to host fonts
>
>     SYNOPSIS
>          fontsrv [ -m mtpt ] [ -s srvname ]
>
>          fontsrv -p path
>
>     DESCRIPTION
>          Fontsrv presents the host window system's fonts in the stan-
>          dard Plan 9 format (see font(7)). It serves a virtual direc-
>          tory tree mounted at mtpt (if the -m option is given) and
>          posted at srvname (default font).
>
>          The -p option changes fontsrv's behavior: rather than serve
>          a file system, fontsrv prints to standard output the con-
>          tents of the named path. If path names a directory in the
>          served file system, fontsrv lists the directory's contents.
>
>          The fonts are arranged in a two-level tree.  The root con-
>          tains directories named for each system font.  Each font
>          directory contains subdirectories named for a point size and
>          whether the subfonts are anti-aliased: 10 (bitmap) 10a
>          (anti-aliased greyscale) 12, 12a, and so on.  The font
>          directory will synthesize additional sizes on demand: look-
>          ing up 19a will synthesize the 19-point anti-aliased size if
>          possible.  Each size directory contains a font file and sub-
>          font files named x0000.bit, x0100.bit, and so on represent-
>          ing 256-character Unicode ranges.
>
>          Openfont (see graphics(3)) recognizes font paths beginning
>          with /mnt/font and implements them by invoking fontsrv; it
>          need not be running already.
>
>     EXAMPLES
>          List the fonts on the system:
>
>               % fontsrv &
>               % 9p ls font
>
>          or:
>
>               % fontsrv -p .
>
>          Run acme(1) using the operating system's Monaco as the
>          fixed-width font:
>
>               % acme -F /mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font
>
>          Run sam(1) using the same font:
>
>               % font=/mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font sam
>
>     SOURCE
>          /usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/fontsrv
>
>     SEE ALSO
>          font(7)
>
>     BUGS
>          Due to OS X restrictions, fontsrv does not fork itself into
>          the background when serving a user-level file system.
>
>          Fontsrv has no support for X11 fonts; on X11 systems, it
>          will serve an empty top-level directory.
>
>          On OS X, the anti-aliased bitmaps are not perfect.  For
>          example, the lower case r in the subfont
>          Times-Roman/14a/x0000.bit appears truncated on the right and
>          too light overall.
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3918 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Russ Cox]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just tried this from the mercurial snapshot from last night.
> fontsrv appears to work but complains about fuse not being set up properly.
> Does this mean acme is not going to work?
> Should I be asking this on the plan9port mailing list?

No, yes, moved there.

Russ

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:17:22 -0400
erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> > Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or Bitstream Charter
>
> i don't recall.  the date on the original conversion from .ttf is 2005.
>
> > Odd thing is if I use hget or curl to get the page I get a lot of nulls. The page is encoded in utf-8 so I don't know what the google.gr servers might be doing.
>
> ; hget  http://google.gr/
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
>
> i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.

I guess that's server-side mucking about based on user-agent not reporting utf-8 capability or something stupid.  Firefox page info feature reports the page as utf-8, and on inspection of the source:

<!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

I wonder if there's some 'prefered encoding' message the UA can send to the server.

--
Ethan Grammatikidis

Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[John Floren]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:15 PM, J. R. Mauro<jrm8005@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2009, at 16:05, Josh Wood <josh@utopian.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>>>
>>> Does
>>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>>
>> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
>> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
>> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata.  There is a ttf2subf program
>> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
>> Fontforge product for Plan 9.  Erik has used that program or similar
>> to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
>> may be in his contrib directory.
>>
>> -Josh
>>
>
> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9 Bigelow
> fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing that the
> character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
>
>

Remember, only heathens use ` to begin a quote.

The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
done ``like this'' in a monospace font.

John
-- 
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[J.R. Mauro]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:50 PM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Remember, only heathens use ` to begin a quote.
>
> The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
> because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
> properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
> done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
>

Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm a TeX user. Dumb quotes are just that.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[erik quanstrom]

> > The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
> > because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
> > properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
> > done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
> >
>
> Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm a TeX user. Dumb quotes are just that.

my terminal doesn't do \TeX.  does yours?\p
\vskip 1em
--- erik
\bye

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[J.R. Mauro]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:47 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> > The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
>> > because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
>> > properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
>> > done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
>> >
>>
>> Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm a TeX user. Dumb quotes are just that.
>
> my terminal doesn't do \TeX.  does yours?\p
> \vskip 1em
> --- erik
> \bye
>
>

Nah, I just parse it in my head.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).

Microsoft has some surprisingly good information at
http://www.microsoft.com/typography.

Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Chad Brown]

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On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:02 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>>> ; hget  http://google.gr/
>> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
>> content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
>>
>> i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.
>
> I guess that's server-side mucking about based on user-agent not
> reporting utf-8 capability or something stupid.  Firefox page info
> feature reports the page as utf-8, and on inspection of the source:
>
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
> content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>
> I wonder if there's some 'prefered encoding' message the UA can send
> to the server.

Accept-Charset is the http header that you want, but to do it `right'
you probably want to muck about with http's q-value weighting system.
The shorter form is that you'll have to tell the server you're ok with
UTF, or it'll fall back to it's best-guess techniques, with the
default fallback of iso-8859.

*Chad

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Re: [9fans] Fonts

[Federico G. Benavento]

ie=utf-8 works fine

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Chad Brown<yandros@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:02 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>
> ; hget  http://google.gr/
>
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
> content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
>
> i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.
>
> I guess that's server-side mucking about based on user-agent not reporting
> utf-8 capability or something stupid.  Firefox page info feature reports the
> page as utf-8, and on inspection of the source:
>
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
> content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>
> I wonder if there's some 'prefered encoding' message the UA can send to the
> server.
>
> Accept-Charset is the http header that you want, but to do it `right' you
> probably want to muck about with http's q-value weighting system.  The
> shorter form is that you'll have to tell the server you're ok with UTF, or
> it'll fall back to it's best-guess techniques, with the default fallback of
> iso-8859.
>
> *Chad
>



-- 
Federico G. Benavento