Re: [9fans] A prick into the wasps' nest ;-)

[Vladimir Los <wlad@mipk.kharkiv.edu>]

Good Day, Peter!

I am here at last... :o)

> I'm not going to switch to oberon ;-))
> i think it doesn't have anything like buton3 acquisition,

What do you and Rob talk about every time? Is button 3 role something 
special in our life? :o))) Oberon not only use all three buttons, but 
inserts so called "interclicks"... Due to them the count of functions, 
which can be done by mouse (without keyboard shortcuts) increases...

> and piping to dot. And plumbing, of course.

I've started to learn Plan 9 as you know three days ago. What do you 
mean saing about these things? Is it analog of "clipboard"? In Oberon 
you can manipulate selected chunks of texts (not only texts but objects 
of any types!). Of course Oberon has no analog of pipe (yet, because of 
needless), but you can refer to need info by using special sintax 
agreements (*, ~, ^).
Additionally, as I can see what Plan9/Inferno users can do only in acme, 
Oberon users can do everywhere in the system. Any part (chaunk) of text 
fulfiled syntax agreement (Module.Procedure) can be executed as "command"...

> BTW, old Oberon is dead,

A few brave sentence. They just transformed to new generation systems.

  and Bluebottle has much more
> widozish look'n'feel, which i don't like...

Again. You have to see a great influance of Windows to "masses". Oberon 
had very reach mouse actions combinations. But mainstream prefer 
"windozish" approaches. I do not like Windows too. But I can say "yes 
natural selection" (dirested by one firm - you know what I mean :o) ) 
made its work: nobody use Oberon or Inferno. Almost everyone use Windows 
and has habit to its mouse actions agreement...

Of course we can create systems which are enough flexible to setup by a 
user for his/her habits... But where are such systems? Linux?

> Not to say, how could I live without C?

As I can see Inferno users can! :o)
And I agree with them. More! If I work in Unix-like sustems, I prefer 
Inferno just because it has many features looking like Oneron's ones. :o)

> However, some (maybe) provocative  questions remain, namely :
> is OO paradigm overcome/superseeded/abandoned, or has more cons than pros?

Odf course I see this question is addressed to Rob but may I answer it too?
OO paradigm is not the question of programming (coding if you want). 
This is the thing of thinking and design. Unix became so popular due to 
its authors (designers) made OO decision: they started to think about 
everything like about files. Thinking such way they have restricted a 
domain of solutions, but at the same time they have desciplinized the 
thinking of great deal of programmers...
If you think you can now not to take into account OO-design principles 
just because last OSs were programmed and look like "nonOO", you are 
wrong. OO can help you to create more structured and accurate programs. 
You can start thinking more productively when you "prepare" you domains. 
You can start undersatnd you program texts after several months after a 
work is done. :o)