* [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 [not found] <20051223180437.GA2661@colwyn.zhadum.org.uk> @ 2005-12-24 9:01 ` lucio 2005-12-24 10:11 ` Uriel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: lucio @ 2005-12-24 9:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I wouldn't think this would merit major mention, but it's nice to see that the NetBSD developers keep an eye on Plan 9 too. It pops up surprisingly often on the mailing lists, very seldom in the context of: "If you want Plan 9, you know where to get it" :-) ++L > * Added seq(1), a utility which prints a sequence of numbers. > seq(1) is derived from Plan 9. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-24 9:01 ` [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 lucio @ 2005-12-24 10:11 ` Uriel 2005-12-25 12:54 ` Uriel 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-12-24 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs And they have "magic symlinks"! that shows how much they have learned from Plan 9... not. Oh, and they pioneered in LSD(sic) land the marvelous idea of dynamically linking /bin Paraphrasing our founding fathers: "The NetBSD project hasn't learned anything" uriel On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 11:01:36AM +0200, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > I wouldn't think this would merit major mention, but it's nice to see > that the NetBSD developers keep an eye on Plan 9 too. It pops up > surprisingly often on the mailing lists, very seldom in the context > of: "If you want Plan 9, you know where to get it" :-) > > ++L > > > * Added seq(1), a utility which prints a sequence of numbers. > > seq(1) is derived from Plan 9. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-24 10:11 ` Uriel @ 2005-12-25 12:54 ` Uriel 2005-12-25 20:16 ` erik quanstrom 2005-12-25 23:11 ` Paul Lalonde 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-12-25 12:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 10:11:34AM +0000, Uriel wrote: > Paraphrasing our founding fathers: > "The NetBSD project hasn't learned anything" Maybe this reference was too obscure, so here is the source: http://fred.cambridge.ma.us/c.o.r.flame/msg00037.html The whole thread is a gold mine. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-25 12:54 ` Uriel @ 2005-12-25 20:16 ` erik quanstrom 2005-12-27 1:12 ` Ronald G. Minnich 2005-12-25 23:11 ` Paul Lalonde 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2005-12-25 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans, Uriel this is quite an interesting thread. i remember reading it way back when. it would be interesting to see how that discussion would play out with modern parameters. ron, are you still using dsm? - erik Uriel <uriell@binarydream.org> writes | | On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 10:11:34AM +0000, Uriel wrote: | > Paraphrasing our founding fathers: | > "The NetBSD project hasn't learned anything" | | Maybe this reference was too obscure, so here is the source: | | http://fred.cambridge.ma.us/c.o.r.flame/msg00037.html | | The whole thread is a gold mine. | | uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-25 20:16 ` erik quanstrom @ 2005-12-27 1:12 ` Ronald G. Minnich 2005-12-27 1:36 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Ronald G. Minnich @ 2005-12-27 1:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: erik quanstrom, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: 9fans > ron, are you still using dsm? Nah. I was young and naive back then. Now I am old and naive. Along the way, I dumped DSM, although my last go-round was something called ZOUNDS, which I used to good effect for X11-based tiled displays and other such things you can see on my web page. ZOUNDS is available free of charge bla bla bla, and I still hear from people every now and then who are using it. I did build a 17-node hardware DSM system based on SCI that worked really, really well for a parallel mpeg encoding project -- you know, the kind of thing your cheap PC now does at 60x real-time or something :-) SCI was a very powerful network, shame it had so many problems. It's really, really nice to do stuff like atomic increment of a variable in another machine's memory with a simple function call. Yeah, it's not "the right thing" any more but, that said, it sure was nice. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-27 1:12 ` Ronald G. Minnich @ 2005-12-27 1:36 ` erik quanstrom 2005-12-28 14:37 ` Ronald G Minnich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2005-12-27 1:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs, Ronald G. Minnich; +Cc: 9fans i was interested in one posting (i'm to lazy to re reread it and find the reference) where you were multicasting or broadcasting a buffer to n nodes for digestion using what sounded like page-based DSM. it's the type of operation that you can't do with 9p. and i never did convince myself that i needed to. page-based DSM has always sounded like 1/2 of a brilliant idea. there was an os named dsum dimsum or something based on DSM in the early 90s. the only problem was that they put the DSM so deep in the system that you couldn't mix processor types in a cluster. (who's to say what node you might have landed on.) needless to say, i couldn't google it up. - erik "Ronald G. Minnich" <rminnich@lanl.gov> writes | | | > ron, are you still using dsm? | | Nah. I was young and naive back then. Now I am old and naive. Along the | way, I dumped DSM, although my last go-round was something called ZOUNDS, | which I used to good effect for X11-based tiled displays and other such | things you can see on my web page. ZOUNDS is available free of charge bla | bla bla, and I still hear from people every now and then who are using it. | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-27 1:36 ` erik quanstrom @ 2005-12-28 14:37 ` Ronald G Minnich 2005-12-29 3:21 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Ronald G Minnich @ 2005-12-28 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs erik quanstrom wrote: > i was interested in one posting (i'm to lazy to re reread it and find the > reference) where you were multicasting or broadcasting a buffer to > n nodes for digestion using what sounded like page-based DSM. available in ZOUNDS. ZOUNDS was more like an "attach this chunk of your virtual memory to this network connection endpoint" than a real DSM. I never did coherency protocols anyway -- MESI on an ethernet? You gotta be kidding ... Anyways, ZOUNDS used IP multicast for this stuff, and we have found out that many switches choke and die on IP multicast, even today. A nice theory, killed by a brutal gang of facts. > deep in the system that you couldn't mix processor types in a cluster. > (who's to say what node you might have landed on.) > the encoding cluster I mentioned was pentium/freebsd and alpha/linux (64-bit). You can do this stuff, you just have to be careful. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-28 14:37 ` Ronald G Minnich @ 2005-12-29 3:21 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2005-12-29 3:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans, Ronald G Minnich; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> writes | | erik quanstrom wrote: | > i was interested in one posting (i'm to lazy to re reread it and find the | > reference) where you were multicasting or broadcasting a buffer to | > n nodes for digestion using what sounded like page-based DSM. | | available in ZOUNDS. ZOUNDS was more like an "attach this chunk of your | virtual memory to this network connection endpoint" than a real DSM. I | never did coherency protocols anyway -- MESI on an ethernet? You gotta | be kidding ... there are lots of fancy things one can roll up as part of DSM. but thair be dragons in coherency protocols. | | Anyways, ZOUNDS used IP multicast for this stuff, and we have found out | that many switches choke and die on IP multicast, even today. A nice | theory, killed by a brutal gang of facts. if #nodes >> #switches you could try using your own software gw to forward the multicast across bothersome hardware. i've never found a switch (even the linksys on my desk) to fail with a 224.0.0.1 local network broadcast. | > deep in the system that you couldn't mix processor types in a cluster. | > (who's to say what node you might have landed on.) | > | | the encoding cluster I mentioned was pentium/freebsd and alpha/linux | (64-bit). You can do this stuff, you just have to be careful. you were savvy enough segregate the DSM data from stuff on the heap/stack. in the system i was talking about, the operating system was DSM based and would send pages around underneath the application. stack, heap, bss, data segment, whatever. lets assume that we can reliably reset the registers and pc from one architecture to the next, the insurrmountable problem with this kind of system is it is impossible, given a page of memory, tell which bytes are endian-dependent. this kind of system would only make sense in an virtual machine environment. i'm suprised that that was never part of the discussion. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 2005-12-25 12:54 ` Uriel 2005-12-25 20:16 ` erik quanstrom @ 2005-12-25 23:11 ` Paul Lalonde 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Paul Lalonde @ 2005-12-25 23:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I can certainly say something I've learned in the last 15 years - gone are the days when Usenet had actual interesting conversation :-( There's bits of the old days I really do miss. Paul On 25-Dec-05, at 4:54 AM, Uriel wrote: > On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 10:11:34AM +0000, Uriel wrote: >> Paraphrasing our founding fathers: >> "The NetBSD project hasn't learned anything" > > Maybe this reference was too obscure, so here is the source: > > http://fred.cambridge.ma.us/c.o.r.flame/msg00037.html > > The whole thread is a gold mine. > > uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-12-29 3:21 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <20051223180437.GA2661@colwyn.zhadum.org.uk> 2005-12-24 9:01 ` [9fans] Re: Announcing the release of NetBSD 3.0 lucio 2005-12-24 10:11 ` Uriel 2005-12-25 12:54 ` Uriel 2005-12-25 20:16 ` erik quanstrom 2005-12-27 1:12 ` Ronald G. Minnich 2005-12-27 1:36 ` erik quanstrom 2005-12-28 14:37 ` Ronald G Minnich 2005-12-29 3:21 ` erik quanstrom 2005-12-25 23:11 ` Paul Lalonde
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