[9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[plan9]

Greets all.
If I may please,
i'm a plan9 newbie. Don't know a thing about writing code or
programming, nor do I know anything about networking other than what
dhcp does for me. Thusly, i'm just a "user".  I enjoy figuring out
everything I can on my own when possible, having learnt alot from so
many years of Slackware and FreeBSD.

Truthfully, I just need help understanding how to do one thing.
Installing other softwares. How do I take something (say from the
sources index on the plan9 homesite) and install it? I can't find an
equivalent to anything like pkg_add or the classic configure/make/make
install type of thing.

Thank you in advance for your help folks. Truly.
I prefer minimalism in my interface and considering (what I see) to be
the pure beauty of the plan9 interface and design, I hope I can
someday make it my everyday OS.
In short; nice to meet ya :) Hope I can become as proficient here as
alot of you are.
  --Q

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Peter A. Cejchan]

Welcome aboard!!
I think you will need to compile the prgs you download from
'sources'... just type 'mk install' n the proper directory
please do not hesitate to ask me more if you're in a problem,I 'm not
a guru, but I have some 10 yrs. experience with plan 9 as my favourite
os.....

greetings,
++pac
<tyapca7(_at_)gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:03 AM, plan9 <bitpusher2600@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greets all.
> If I may please,
> i'm a plan9 newbie. Don't know a thing about writing code or
> programming, nor do I know anything about networking other than what
> dhcp does for me. Thusly, i'm just a "user".  I enjoy figuring out
> everything I can on my own when possible, having learnt alot from so
> many years of Slackware and FreeBSD.
>
> Truthfully, I just need help understanding how to do one thing.
> Installing other softwares. How do I take something (say from the
> sources index on the plan9 homesite) and install it? I can't find an
> equivalent to anything like pkg_add or the classic configure/make/make
> install type of thing.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help folks. Truly.
> I prefer minimalism in my interface and considering (what I see) to be
> the pure beauty of the plan9 interface and design, I hope I can
> someday make it my everyday OS.
> In short; nice to meet ya :) Hope I can become as proficient here as
> alot of you are.
>  --Q
>
>



-- 
=============================
Petr A. Cejchan
<cej@gli.cas.cz, tyapca7@gmail.com>
http://home.gli.cas.cz/cej/www/
http://www.facebook.com/cejchan
work: +420-233 087 237
home/SMS: +420-720 121 721
ICQ: 583000501
=============================

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Steve Simon]

I suggest you install Fede's contrib package (a sort of package managment system),

	9fs sources
	/n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib

now you can list packages and install them - see man contrib

some stuff is not in contrib packages, it is too small or the author does not
line contrib. These are usually downloaded as a tar file and can be built using mk(1)
(the plan9 equivilent of make) - much as packages are installed with slackware (I beleive).

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Jorden Mauro]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> I suggest you install Fede's contrib package (a sort of package managment system),
>
>        9fs sources
>        /n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib
>
> now you can list packages and install them - see man contrib
>
> some stuff is not in contrib packages, it is too small or the author does not
> line contrib. These are usually downloaded as a tar file and can be built using mk(1)
> (the plan9 equivilent of make) - much as packages are installed with slackware (I beleive).
>
> -Steve
>
>

Scripts can also just be cp'd straight to $home/bin

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Purple_Q]

Well, i'm certainly glad there are friendly folks here, thank you all.
I guess the need for running "configure" first is gone here.

I'm having trouble finding info on how to mount a thumb drive. My
primary home machine is a laptop, with a Broadcom card, and since it
is not detected, I have to download things from the source here
(booted into FreeBSD). I promise not to bother you folks much further,
but is there perhaps a simplified version you might give me of the
device lettering system so I can figure out how to mount partitions/
devices?

Truthfully, i'm attracted to plan9 like a super-magnet and I don't
know why since this OS (I might presume) isn't geared toward the daily/
desktop @ home user. Instant messaging, burning CD/DVD things, not
really there? All that aside though, i've got the feeling i'm going to
work at every route possible to earn the admirable title of a "9fan".
Maybe I just love the bunny :) I thought about installing the 9tools
(including rio) right here in my home-sweet-home BSD land, but there's
certainly nothing better than the real thing.

Lol, I apologize for the rant. Take care all. Thank you.
  -Q

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Brian L. Stuart]

> I guess the need for running "configure" first is gone
> here.

Most definitely.  [Editorial comment on configure elided]

> I'm having trouble finding info on how to mount a thumb
> drive.

If you are running usbd, it should detect when you insert
the drive and run usb/disk for it.  This will make the
"disk" available in /dev/sdUn.m/ and the usbfat: script
will mount a FAT partition on such a drive.  See usb(4)
and usbd(4) for more details.

> I don't
> know why since this OS (I might presume) isn't geared
> toward the daily/
> desktop @ home user. Instant messaging,

There is an IRC client or two floating around, and I'm
pretty sure there's a tool to gateway some of the other
IM services through it.  (However, you might need Inferno
for the latter part; my memory is a little hazy on that.)

> burning CD/DVD

Plan 9 has a very elegant approach to burning CDs.  See
cdfs(4) and mk9660(8) for the details.

> Maybe I just love the bunny :) I thought about installing
> the 9tools
> (including rio) right here in my home-sweet-home BSD land,
> but there's
> certainly nothing better than the real thing.

It can be quite useful to do both, and to throw 9vx in for
good measure.  For example, I run FreeBSD on my laptop and
use p9p (9tools) to get a lot of what it has.  Then I run
9vx on FreeBSD to give me what's pretty close to a real
Plan 9 terminal.  Using its -b option, I have it connect
to my file server which is running Plan 9 directly.  9vx
looks like a terminal talking to the file server and also
has access to the FreeBSD name space.  Conversely, using
the p9p tools (and some experimental fs stuff I'm working
on) FreeBSD can see what's on my file server.  It's about
as close as I've gotten so far to being the best of both
worlds.

BLS

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[erik quanstrom]

> > I suggest you install Fede's contrib package (a sort of package managment system),
> >
> >        9fs sources
> >        /n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib
> >
> > now you can list packages and install them - see man contrib
> >
> > some stuff is not in contrib packages, it is too small or the author does not
> > line contrib. These are usually downloaded as a tar file and can be built using mk(1)
> > (the plan9 equivilent of make) - much as packages are installed with slackware (I beleive).
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >
>
> Scripts can also just be cp'd straight to $home/bin

steve's suggestion has the advantage that contrib itself
can be managed with contrib.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Jorden Mauro]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:17 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> > I suggest you install Fede's contrib package (a sort of package managment system),
>> >
>> >        9fs sources
>> >        /n/sources/contrib/fgb/root/rc/bin/contrib/install fgb/contrib
>> >
>> > now you can list packages and install them - see man contrib
>> >
>> > some stuff is not in contrib packages, it is too small or the author does not
>> > line contrib. These are usually downloaded as a tar file and can be built using mk(1)
>> > (the plan9 equivilent of make) - much as packages are installed with slackware (I beleive).
>> >
>> > -Steve
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Scripts can also just be cp'd straight to $home/bin
>
> steve's suggestion has the advantage that contrib itself
> can be managed with contrib.
>
> - erik
>
>

Yes, my suggestion is only for scripts which can't be installed with contrib.

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[matt]

>
>
>>burning CD/DVD
>>
>>
>
>Plan 9 has a very elegant approach to burning CDs.  See
>cdfs(4) and mk9660(8) for the details.
>
>
I wrote a wee helper for burning .iso files

http://plan9/bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/maht/rc/iso2cd

/n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/iso2cd

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Purple_Q]

Well, after a few days of messing around I still can't accomplish
anything. Perhaps i'm thinking too much in BSD and/or linux terms. As
I said before, I like to try to figure out things on my own when and
where possible, but several days in and I still can't function.
Nonetheless,
I understand the "everything is text" idea, and I'm comfortable with
the mouse actions and getting around the gui, but I still can't figure
out how to
1. mount a cd, usb stick, or another local filesystem.
The mount command is nothing like what i'm used to on linux or BSD,
and the /mnt folder is kind of confusing. How can I mount/ummount
things and approx. where do they end up?

2. Installing software. I have no net connection in Plan9 because it
does not recognize my ethernet card. Do I just take something, say
a .tbz from the sources contrib directory online, put somewhere and
decompress it, then just type "mk install", am I missing something?

Any other user-end, desktop administration type of things you feel is
worth pointing out, please feel free to throw them in too or point me
to any specific threads or documents that might help out. I've read
over nearly every document on Bell Lab's Plan9 site, some things I
understand, some is way over my head.
I am really trying though fellas, please don't come at me with the
"stick to FreeBSD" thing. It is my primary system at present, but I
want to enjoy the experience of Plan9 too. Sincere thanks for your
time.
  --Q

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Gorka Guardiola]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Purple_Q <bitpusher2600@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. mount a cd, usb stick, or another local filesystem.
> The mount command is nothing like what i'm used to on linux or BSD,
> and the /mnt folder is kind of confusing. How can I mount/ummount
> things and approx. where do they end up?

If you are talking about a local filesystem, you will need to run
the file server first. Then it gives you a connection somewhere,
for example by posting it in a file in srv.
Then you mount the connection,
see the examples in the man page mount(1).
Some devices need some other extra programs be run
first, which provide files abstracting the disks for the
fileserver to use, like usb which needs another server.

All this is normally done in scripts already provided. For example, to mount a
usb stick, you simply run usbfat: see usb(4).

Take a look at /bin/*: as examples to mount fat partitions and floppies.

Another simpler example run by hand is for a cd

9660srv -f /dev/sdC1/data
mount /srv/9660 /n/cdrom

/n generates mount points on demand and is the standard place to
mount things, see mntgen(4).

>
> 2. Installing software. I have no net connection in Plan9 because it
> does not recognize my ethernet card. Do I just take something, say
> a .tbz from the sources contrib directory online, put somewhere and
> decompress it, then just type "mk install", am I missing something?

You are probably out of luck, see if there is a similar one and start tweaking.
There is extra software in sources in contrib and sources.
9fs sources, look around.

Some of it is packed using this.

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Contrib_index/


>
> Any other user-end, desktop administration type of things you feel is
> worth pointing out, please feel free to throw them in too or point me
> to any specific threads or documents that might help out. I've read


Take a look at:
http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/newbie-guide.pdf
http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/who/nemo/9.intro.pdf
http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/

And enjoy :-).
--
- curiosity sKilled the cat

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[maht]

The slightly unobvious part (unless you try man man) is :

% man lookman

which should lead you to

% lookman cd

which should logically make you try

% man cdfs

which explains about CD writing, damn

hmm, the See Also sections says something with 9660 in it (your physical
CD contains an ISO9660 filesystem right ?) that you want to srv

% man srv9660

describes how to serve an ISO9660 file system



:)

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[maht]

> I understand the "everything is text" idea
>

except therefore, you don't :) "everything is a file"

unless you can read cat /dev/screen

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[erik quanstrom]

> > I understand the "everything is text" idea
> >
>
> except therefore, you don't :) "everything is a file"
>
> unless you can read cat /dev/screen

there's certainly quite a bit of effort into making
everything possible text.  kernel devices generally
produce and consume human-readable output
when practical.

naturally, bitmaps are hard to read.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[erik quanstrom]

>The mount command is nothing like what i'm used to on linux or BSD,
>and the /mnt folder is kind of confusing. How can I mount/ummount
>things and approx. where do they end up?

bind(1) describes how bind and mount work.
could you explain why you find /mnt confusing?
it's just a directory that is the conventional mount
point for several fileservers.

the main difference with unix mount would be
that plan 9 mounts file servers, not devices.
so instead of a device argument, plan 9 takes
a (posted) file descriptor.

>2. Installing software. I have no net connection in Plan9 because it
>does not recognize my ethernet card.

what ethernet card do you have?  if you're not sure,
what's the output of pci|grep net?

serviceable ethernet cards can be had cheep.  most
all realtek and intel controllers work.

>I am really trying though fellas, please don't come at me with the
>"stick to FreeBSD" thing. It is my primary system at present, but I
>want to enjoy the experience of Plan9 too. Sincere thanks for your
>time.

relax.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Gorka Guardiola <paurea@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you are talking about a local filesystem, you will need to run
> the file server first. Then it gives you a connection somewhere,
> for example by posting it in a file in srv.

That's one point I didn't really understand yet, I admit ;-o

The fileserver creates as a file somewhere in the hirachy
(similar to unix domain sockets) where a mount can grab it ?
hmm, that was my missing link.

> Then you mount the connection,
> see the examples in the man page mount(1).
> Some devices need some other extra programs be run
> first, which provide files abstracting the disks for the
> fileserver to use, like usb which needs another server.

Is there already some tool for modeling those dependencies
(hopefully in a purely declarative way) and start/stop
services on-demand ?


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 phone:  +49 36207 519931  email: weigelt@metux.de
 mobile: +49 174 7066481   icq:   210169427         skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[erik quanstrom]

> > Then you mount the connection,
> > see the examples in the man page mount(1).
> > Some devices need some other extra programs be run
> > first, which provide files abstracting the disks for the
> > fileserver to use, like usb which needs another server.
>
> Is there already some tool for modeling those dependencies
> (hopefully in a purely declarative way) and start/stop
> services on-demand ?

usbd does do a lot of things automaticly.  but there are limits.
eventually one runs into hardware.

maybe one would like to be able to plug in a new pcie card
while the system is running, reenumerate the bus, recognize
the new usb ports, scan them and find the attached disk, start
usb/disk and find the fat filesystem there and start dossrv on
it.

unfortunately, if one's fileserver is connected over ether0
and ether0 is renumbered or needs a different bar as a result
of reenumerating the pcie bus, you're going to have to figure
out how to make sure that the hardware attached to ether0
doesn't change, and how to make sure that the ip stack doesn't
get irritated during the reenumeration and reinitialization
of the adapter.

it's a fairly hard problem.  usbd gets a lot done with little
effort.  it's quite nice.  the downside is that usbd needs to
be godlike in its knowledge of what programs drive what
kind of devices.  this would be harder to do with a more
traditional interface like ethernet that doesn't concurrently
define a data layer and application layer.  (and is assumed
less secure.)

do you really want your os starting, say, aoe just because the
ethernet adapter saw aoe packets floating around on
the wire?

- erik

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Purple_Q]

Ok, so everything being a "server" instead of a device, I suppose
understanding that would be step 1. I'm going to have to spend some
more time re-reading some of the manpages.

My only machine is a laptop, the ethernet card is broadcom, and from
searching thru the past threads, appears to be a thorn in everyone's
side. BCM44x I believe. If I can ever get "familiar" here, I'll have
to recompile it's kernel because if i'm reading the output right,
whilst I have a core duo chip, it only inits one of two, not that much
more power is required at present anyhow.

Thanks for your help fellas. I'll quit buggin' ya now ;)
  --Q

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[erik quanstrom]

> My only machine is a laptop, the ethernet card is broadcom, and from
> searching thru the past threads, appears to be a thorn in everyone's
> side. BCM44x I believe. If I can ever get "familiar" here, I'll have
> to recompile it's kernel because if i'm reading the output right,
> whilst I have a core duo chip, it only inits one of two, not that much
> more power is required at present anyhow.

the live cd boots with 8259 interrupts (i.e. *nomp=1
in plan9.ini).  this is for maximum compatability.
since 8259 interrupts are not mp capable, the bsp
(boot processor) doesn't turn up any aps (application
processors).

you're kernel doesn't need to be recompiled.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Frederik Caulier]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Purple_Q <bitpusher2600@gmail.com> wrote:
> My only machine is a laptop, the ethernet card is broadcom, and from
> searching thru the past threads, appears to be a thorn in everyone's
> side. BCM44x I believe. If I can ever get "familiar" here, I'll have
> to recompile it's kernel because if i'm reading the output right,
> whilst I have a core duo chip, it only inits one of two, not that much
> more power is required at present anyhow.

If you have problems with your onboard Ethernet device you might want
to purchase an additional PCMCIA Ethernet card or a USB Ethernet
device like the Arkview USB G1000.[0] See the 'Supported PC Hardware'
page on the wiki and/or search 9fans.

IIRC you can turn on MP support by editing your plan9.ini file. (Run
'9fat:' and then 'sam /n/9fat/plan9.ini')

[0] http://www.amazon.com/Arkview-USB-G1000-Gigabit-Ethernet-Converter/dp/tech-data/B000XFVZ5G/ref=de_a_smtd/177-3078161-2899934

Best regards,
F. Caulier

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Robert Raschke]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 243 bytes --]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:02 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>wrote:

> naturally, bitmaps are hard to read.
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ASCII_art_conversion_tool
(Something along those lines at least.)

Robby

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Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[Wolfgang Kunz]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:30:49 +0100 Purple_Q
<bitpusher2600@gmail.com> wrote:
>Well, after a few days of messing around I still can't accomplish
>anything. Perhaps i'm thinking too much in BSD and/or linux terms.

>As I said before, I like to try to figure out things on my own
when
>and where possible, but several days in and I still can't
function.

I am Plan9 beginner with Unix background too. So I understand your
feeling. I am happy for every step forward. So I am able to add a
second disk to the Plan9 standard installation. I am able to
make the fdisk/prep/fcons of the disk but I am not able to mount
the disk in the filesystem. Or I am able to get aquarela working
but
I have only read access. At that point (when I do not find the
next step to this topic) I go to another topic and work there and
hopefully make a success. So I have every day a success. During
working on other topics I find solutions for my old problems too.
That
is the way I am learning Plan9. Aside this I am trying to
understand
how Plan9 works and start reading the source code of Plan9. So if
nothing
is going forward in Plan9 then I am programming in C (on Plan9) and
so on.

Regards,
Wolfgang