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From: Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] sad commentary
Date: Tue,  1 Jul 2008 07:47:11 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5B52A7C15C61DD08DCF0726E@F74D39FA044AA309EAEA14B9> (raw)

> Not true. The ability to adapt the system quickly in response to a
> changing standards situation made a critical difference in having
> UTF-8 rather than a weaker proposal accepted by X/Open and hence ISO.

Plan 9's "historical" role is not in question. That same book I quoted in
my original post says that the /proc filesystem in FreeBSD is modelled
after Plan 9's totally generic approach to representing a running system
and its resources. Fine, but not "on-topic." There're many research
platforms--some we've heard of, some we've not--whose innovations are
"backported" into production systems but that doesn't make those platforms
useful to the general user.

> Plan 9 is not for end users.  Plan 9 is for programmers.

Which types of programmers?

1. Casual programmers, e.g. an admin who finds out a few lines of code
could lighten their burden

2. Programmers in need of a dirty-but-quick solution, e.g. a prototype

3. Hobby programmers, i.e. those who learn out of curiosity and aren't
"forced" to remain loyal to a specific system's quirks and general edginess

4. Reluctant programmers, i.e. those who aren't programmers per se but need
to write one program in the course of solving another--probably
non-computerish--problem

5. Ueberprogrammers, e.g. those who write one new OS in each circadian cycle

6. Plain vanilla programmers, i.e. people whose "job" revolves around
programming computers most of whom have to develop codebases of their
predecessors and are stuck with whatever the original designers thought was
best be it a Plan 9 "mod" or whatever

7. Abstract computer science programmers, i.e. those who want to test and
profile right here right now that brand new hybrid of stack, trie, and
tuatara they've thought up

If Plan 9 is really an OS only for people of types (5) and (6), and some of
(2), well then my statement is true that "Plan 9 is a 'niche' OS." No one
should wonder why it isn't more widely used or even remembered in less
"elite" circles.

Best wishes,
Eris Discordia

--On Monday, June 30, 2008 3:48 PM -0700 Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

>     The fact the UTF-8 was first "implemented" on Plan 9 has nothing
> to do with Plan 9's funtionality as an OS.
> Not true. The ability to adapt the system quickly in response to a
> changing standards situation made a critical difference in having
> UTF-8 rather than a weaker proposal accepted by X/Open and hence ISO.
>
>     The question is what new function Plan 9, as an OS, defines for
> the end user.
> Plan 9 is not for end users.  Plan 9 is for programmers.
>
> -rob
>







             reply	other threads:[~2008-07-01  6:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 134+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-01  6:47 Eris Discordia [this message]
2008-07-01  7:42 ` John Stalker
2008-07-01 13:24 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-07-01 13:32   ` john
2008-07-01 21:35     ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-07-01 21:53       ` Dan Cross
2008-07-01 22:17         ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-07-01 21:55       ` john
2008-07-01 17:44 ` Russ Cox
     [not found] <6653239E78712E5C0992CFE3@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01 12:49 ` ron minnich
2008-07-01 20:40 ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-01 21:40   ` Charles Forsyth
     [not found] <970551641B57BC6070158BA7@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01  8:38 ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-07-01 20:36 ` Iruata Souza
     [not found] <6AB24A226A77E17024CF16B9@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01 20:22 ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-01 20:30 ` Iruata Souza
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-07-01  8:42 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01  8:28 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01  8:25 Eris Discordia
2008-07-02  4:52 ` lucio
2008-07-02  5:21   ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-02  6:09     ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-07-02 18:58       ` Wes Kussmaul
2008-07-02 19:14         ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-02 21:20           ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-03  0:19       ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-02  9:28     ` lucio
2008-07-02 17:55       ` David Leimbach
2008-07-02 12:04     ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-03  0:13       ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-03  0:17       ` Robert William Fuller
2008-07-03  2:16         ` Adrian Tritschler
2008-07-03  8:43           ` Robert Raschke
2008-07-03 10:25             ` Steve Simon
2008-07-03 12:27             ` dave.l
2008-07-03 18:12               ` Michaelian Ennis
2008-07-05 17:14             ` Wes Kussmaul
2008-07-05 17:43             ` Wes Kussmaul
2008-07-03  9:39           ` Rodolfo kix García 
2008-07-04 11:26           ` matt
2008-07-04 10:58         ` matt
2008-07-01  7:47 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 13:15 ` john
     [not found] <A5F2B9F56DBEDAA4DDA2E579@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01  7:23 ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-07-01  8:45   ` Eris Discordia
     [not found]   ` <E65EC37F521210B28673D390@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01  9:41     ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-01 10:40       ` Andrés Domínguez
2008-07-01 22:02       ` Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 22:40         ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-01 23:43         ` a
2008-07-02  5:44         ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-02  6:19           ` John Waters
2008-07-01  7:04 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 14:06 ` cummij
2008-07-01 14:16   ` ron minnich
     [not found] <B7A30661A94738A2B9BE1EA7@172.16.10.200>
2008-06-30 23:02 ` Uriel
2008-06-30 22:32 Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 22:13 Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 22:48 ` Rob Pike
2008-06-30 23:17   ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30 23:28   ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-01  6:53     ` bblochl
2008-07-01  9:21       ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-07-01 13:50         ` David Leimbach
2008-07-01 14:10           ` hiro
2008-07-01 15:20         ` Uriel
2008-07-01 19:21           ` bblochl
2008-07-01 22:55           ` Jack Johnson
2008-07-01 12:44       ` ron minnich
2008-07-01 13:35   ` David Leimbach
2008-07-01 13:47     ` john
2008-07-01 13:59     ` John Waters
2008-07-01 14:03       ` David Leimbach
2008-06-30 22:56 ` erik quanstrom
2008-06-30 23:07 ` a
2008-06-30 23:11 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-01  8:01   ` Eris Discordia
     [not found]   ` <EBDCEA43BFC1C5EE4070BC1E@172.16.10.224>
2008-07-01 20:33     ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-02  8:38 ` DaveL
2008-06-30 21:45 Eris Discordia
2008-07-01 15:40 ` michael block
2008-06-30 19:12 Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 20:01 ` ron minnich
2008-06-30 21:20   ` Eris Discordia
2008-06-30 23:23     ` Iruata Souza
2008-07-01  0:22     ` ron minnich
2008-07-01 10:52   ` John Waters
2008-07-01 11:19     ` hiro
2008-06-30 20:11 ` michael block
2008-06-30 20:42 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-06-30 20:55   ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-06-30 23:06     ` Bakul Shah
2008-06-30 23:21       ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30 23:22       ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2008-07-01  9:37         ` Stefan Groß
2008-06-30 14:55 erik quanstrom
2008-06-30 15:36 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-06-30 17:26   ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 17:06 ` Steven D. Vormwald
2008-06-30 17:34   ` john
2008-06-30 18:33     ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30 18:47       ` Tom Lieber
2008-06-30 23:28     ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 18:16   ` John Stalker
2008-06-30 18:27     ` a
2008-07-02  6:48       ` sqweek
2008-07-02  7:39         ` gdiaz
2008-07-02 12:17           ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-02 12:35         ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-22 14:16           ` sqweek
2008-07-22 14:47             ` Kernel Panic
2008-07-22 14:50               ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-22 15:50               ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-22 15:50                 ` sqweek
2008-07-22 15:46             ` C H Forsyth
2008-06-30 21:19   ` erik quanstrom
2008-06-30  2:21 erik quanstrom
2008-06-30  2:32 ` john
2008-06-30  3:10   ` Tim Wiess
2008-06-30  5:24     ` underspecified
2008-06-30  6:57       ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-06-30  7:50         ` John Waters
2008-06-30  8:03           ` Fco. J. Ballesteros
2008-06-30  2:38 ` Uriel
2008-06-30 12:06   ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 13:46     ` bblochl
2008-06-30 17:27       ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 13:48     ` bblochl
2008-06-30 13:52       ` john
2008-06-30 14:00         ` bblochl
2008-06-30 14:07           ` john
2008-06-30 17:23             ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 17:21       ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-06-30 17:34 ` ron minnich

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