[9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it?

[9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Andrei Maxim]

Hello group,

I've read a while a go the `Maximum Security' book as I was looking
for more info about computers and some decent read during a long
Amsterdam-Toronto flight. For the first time ever, I found some
reference related to the Plan9 OS. As I grabbed the first computer
with Internet access, I looked over Plan9's docs and I became more and
more intrigued.

In a couple of months I will be upgrading my Internet connection and I
will have a stable 128 kbps transfer rate. My question is: should I
give it a try right now or wait till it's better developed?

I want to install it over an old computer, a 366 MHz Celeron with 64
MB RAM. The hard-disk is a Seagate Barracuda III with 30 GB. The modem
is a 33.6 Kbps Rockwell model. On the main-board I have an integrated
Yamaha OPL3 sound-card. The video card is an Intel i740 one.

Thanks for your patience!

--
Harder, better, faster, stronger... and I come on CDs too!

Re: [9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Phil White]

 From my (mostly vicarious) experience, Plan 9 is not a trivial setup.

However, I don't think it's going to be better developed anytime soon.

Of course, I'm pretty far from the pulse of what's going on with plan 9.

I'd say that it makes a fine project for fun.

-Phil/CERisE

On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 08:36:50AM +0000, Andrei Maxim wrote:
> Hello group,
>
> I've read a while a go the `Maximum Security' book as I was looking
> for more info about computers and some decent read during a long
> Amsterdam-Toronto flight. For the first time ever, I found some
> reference related to the Plan9 OS. As I grabbed the first computer
> with Internet access, I looked over Plan9's docs and I became more and
> more intrigued.
>
> In a couple of months I will be upgrading my Internet connection and I
> will have a stable 128 kbps transfer rate. My question is: should I
> give it a try right now or wait till it's better developed?
>
> I want to install it over an old computer, a 366 MHz Celeron with 64
> MB RAM. The hard-disk is a Seagate Barracuda III with 30 GB. The modem
> is a 33.6 Kbps Rockwell model. On the main-board I have an integrated
> Yamaha OPL3 sound-card. The video card is an Intel i740 one.
>
> Thanks for your patience!
>
> --
> Harder, better, faster, stronger... and I come on CDs too!

Re: [9fans] Plan9 - Should I try it?

[northern snowfall]

>
>
>>From my (mostly vicarious) experience, Plan 9 is not a trivial setup.
>However, I don't think it's going to be better developed anytime soon.
>Of course, I'm pretty far from the pulse of what's going on with plan 9.
>I'd say that it makes a fine project for fun.
>
Plan9's setup is becoming easier and easier. After I wrote a (very shabby)
HOWTO on installing plan9 without rio, they made a text-only install option.
Video cards support is growing and you no longer must have your specific
card's info as the first ctlr (which helps autodetect video cards if the
DID/VIDs and ROMline match).

So, yes, things are getting much better. Plan 9 is definitely worth the
small challenge of installation. In fact, it may make you a better hacker
for your buck ;) It did me...

Don

http://deadchildren.org/~north_


>

[9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Andrei Maxim wrote:
> My question is: should I
> give it a try right now or wait till it's better developed?

There is no reason to wait; Plan9 continues to evolve but its
outlines are pretty stable.  There is also an offshoot Inferno
that uses similar concepts in a more Java-like way.

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Charles Forsyth]

>>outlines are pretty stable.  There is also an offshoot Inferno
>>that uses similar concepts in a more Java-like way.

God forbid: it's nothing like Java's way.
all right, they both use virtual machines but so did UCSD Pascal
and the similarity ends about there, partly because
Inferno's designers thought about it first.
and that's the hard part.

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[boyd, rounin]

> ... but so did UCSD Pascal

i'm reaching for my MP5 (sic) [revolver].

my god that was a horrible thing.

on some fool's errand we turned it into something that allowed
semaphores, threads etc ... ick  VAX assembler ...

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Lucio De Re]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:00:41AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote:
>
> God forbid: it's nothing like Java's way.
> all right, they both use virtual machines but so did UCSD Pascal
> and the similarity ends about there, partly because
> Inferno's designers thought about it first.
> and that's the hard part.

The comparison is unavoidable, no matter the differences.  Fortunately,
the paper that addresses the comparison, dated as it is, does tell the
truth.  What's the URL?

++L

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[boyd, rounin]

> The comparison is unavoidable, no matter the differences.  Fortunately,
> the paper that addresses the comparison, dated as it is, does tell the
> truth.  What's the URL?

damn, i'm confused.  i was thinking about UCB pascal -- maybe that
isn't even right 'cos it was a long time ago.

that 'pi' thing.

the only thing they have in common is the concept of a 'virtual machine'.

pascal is a toy.

java is a joke.

limbo?  well, i gotta lotta time for that language.  the module loading is
a bit tedious, but i can live with that.

ever seen a lunix syscall trace of running python to the command line level?

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[C H Forsyth]

>>Inferno's designers thought about it first.
>>and that's the hard part.

as i've been discovering today, though not for the first time...

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[boyd, rounin]

> as i've been discovering today, though not for the first time...

yes, an extremely impressive piece of work.

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Charles Forsyth]

> i said:
>> as i've been discovering today, though not for the first time...

>yes, an extremely impressive piece of work.

ah.  yes i agree about Inferno, but what i meant with that last remark was:
it's the thinking before doing that's often the
hard part [regardless of subject or context].

--
It's a very good idea to compare apples and oranges, that's a big part of what thinking is about. - Penn Jillette

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Charles Forsyth]

>>it's the thinking before doing that's often the
>>hard part [regardless of subject or context].

having said that, it's sometimes just as troublesome the other way,
and indeed i've often been tempted not to do something because i could think
of any number of reasons why it might not be satisfactory; but in
practice if i overcame my qualms it worked very well, or at least
after experiment it could be refined to work very well.

--
``Eventually, I decided that thinking was not getting me very far and it was
time to try building.'' - Rob Pike

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[boyd, rounin]

> it's the thinking before doing that's often the
> hard part [regardless of subject or context].

yup.  i knew.

and sometimes, doing nothing is best.

[9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Andrei Maxim]

Thank you very much for your replies. I found here even more help than
in most of the Linux groups, as Mr. Forsyth already mailed me saying
he might have a driver for my sound card.

That being said, as soon as I'll upgrade my connection, I will
download Plan9. Hard installs do not scare me as long as I have the
specs of the hardware - after all, Debian is running on this Compaq
laptop that came with no really technical specs.

And, of course, if I fail, I assume I can always ask you :^)

Again, thanks for the input!

--Andrei Maxim

--
Harder, better, faster, stronger... and I come on CDs too!

Re: [9fans] Re: Plan9 - Should I try it?

[Axel Belinfante]

> Mr. Forsyth already mailed me saying
> he might have a driver for my sound card.

which was an integrated Yamaha OPL3 sound-card


I would be interested as well in such a driver,
if it would support the Yamaha OPL3-SA3 which
is inside ``our'' toshiba tecra 8000 laptop.

Axel.