[9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Michael Giegerich]

(Sorry if this shows up twice, but my news-
server doesn't seem to have spread this).

Install of plan9v3 onto my Sony 505 laptop went
more or less smooth...

Plan9 resides in the 2nd partition after a 3 GB
Win98 partition. Plan9's partition is 1 GB.

When doing bootsetup I 1st tried the "plan9"
option and it told me that its partition is more
than 2 GB in sdC0, and thus installed its own
(more capable) mbr.

Despite this, when booting I get the message:

PBS..Bad format or I/O error
Press almost any key to reboot...

BTW, when using a floppy to boot everything is
fine (that means I can login as glenda and explore
this new world...).

One more information: in the plan9 partition I
had previously OpenBSD installed (with its kernel
within the 1st 1000 cyls of the hd. Booting was
never a problem). 

Any help anyone?

And something more: is it possible to use history
and command completion with rc?

While I'm at it: is it possible to emulate the
middle button on a 2-button-mouse?

-- 
M. Giegerich, mail: migieger@vsnl.com, phone: +91.(0)80.5530154

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Lucio De Re]

On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 09:17:27AM +0000, Douglas A. Gwyn wrote:
> 
> Have you ever noticed how practically everything in this field
> keeps getting modified until its good features are submerged,
> then it stabilizes so we are stuck with the crufty version forever.

It's a marketing ploy (think back to the automobile industry of the
'50s for a precedent) and it works.

My personal corollary is that the technofreak, a person who has to have
tomorrow's technology at all costs, is best explained as someone who
does not understand today's technology and prays that tomorrow's
technology will be easier.

It is technofreaks that drive the market.

++L

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Louis N. Beleos]

In article <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu> you wrote:
: 	>really, invest in a good three
: 	>button mouse.
: 	>: anothy;

: of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can
: be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out.

: --jim

Logitech "FirstMouse" (currently at CompUSA for $14.99)
is a three button, hand-neutral, serial/ps2 port mouse
that works fine under Plan 9.

-- 
Louis                   beleos@cs.unr.edu

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Anthony Sorace wrote:
> ... i also use a Logitech MouseMan, from just
> before they all went down hill.

Have you ever noticed how practically everything in this field
keeps getting modified until its good features are submerged,
then it stabilizes so we are stuck with the crufty version forever.

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Lucio De Re]

On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:40:29PM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:
> 
> >As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again.  There must be
> >some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box.  But the
> >one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed
> >or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers.  
> 
> In my case, that card worked very well with 2ed driver.  After forced
> it work under 2ed driver, and on the same machine, I failed to boot from
> with 3ed driver.
> 
I presume that applies to me too, but it's a far shot.  Not today,
unfortunately.  Thinking about it, I'm pretty certain you're correct.

OK, here's some stuff for Jim:

The card's information reads:

	EtherLink III
	(c) 1996  3c509B-[   c   ]
	ASSY: 03-0021-[ 004 ]  REV- [  A  ]

	EA=0060977E4207
	SN=6FX17E4207

where I use [ ... ] to indicate a yellow area.  I seem to recall the "c"
above to be lower case, but I may be mistaken.  It's an ISA, maybe PnP
but not used as such, BNC, AUI and UTP adapter.

On the main chip:

	40-0130-004
	9704S 15880554
	LUCENT 40-01304

> My poor memory is now full of rio sources, and that for ether drivers
> has been flushed out completely.  I'll try it onece more if I could have
> one more terminal for us.  ?
> 
The card worked fine once I changed it from "autoselect" to BNC, although
I cannot prove a thing, because now it refuses to respond to the 3c5x9cfg
program that I used on it.  I would have liked to send Jim the disk copy
of the configuration file :-(  Of course, right now the adapter's working
OK, but I can't try the 3Com config, because I'm using it :-(

Two additional issues: (a) the card has misbehaved once I returned to the
box it is normally installed in: it took a bit of effort to jolt it into
operation under NetBSD (the boot loader refused to find it) after the
3Com config program also failed to see it (it hung).  I seem to have
fixed by juggling (violently) the BNC connector _and_ restarting "rarpd"
on the server :-(  Whether I could configure it now is a moot point.

(b) the card used to operate in autoselect mode until I tried to use it
for Plan 9 3ed.  Then and now (fixed to BNC) it had the peculiarity that
the NetBSD boot loader would only find it once.  If the first boot failed,
the bootloader needed the machine restarted (I can't recall whether
RESET sufficed, it didn't a few minutes ago, but I did other horrid
things, then) before locating the card.

Happy hunting, I'm going away for the weekend now.

++L

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[okamoto]

>As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again.  There must be
>some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box.  But the
>one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed
>or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers.  

In my case, that card worked very well with 2ed driver.  After forced
it work under 2ed driver, and on the same machine, I failed to boot from
with 3ed driver.

My poor memory is now full of rio sources, and that for ether drivers
has been flushed out completely.  I'll try it onece more if I could have
one more terminal for us.  ☺

Kenji

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Lucio De Re]

I said:
> >
> >Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition
> >and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-(

To which, on Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:31:24AM +0000, okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:
> 
> I also used the (troubled) 3c509 card for BNC connector, where I have 
> some reason which might not be concerned with others, probably. ?
> So, you mean that the 2nd edition can detect automatically where is
> the wire, but the new release not?  I suppose I set the card BNC intentionally
> though...  It's now over my memory.
> 
No, these are two distinct problems.  I have solved (?!) the 2ed problem
more by chance than intent, and I now (module electrical power problems)
can access the 2ed CPU and file servers moderately adequately (I would
love to have drawterm help along there).

As for the 3c509, I think the problem is two-fold, again.  There must be
some etherlink III cards that work with Jim's code out the box.  But the
one I have and kenji's don't, they either need to have the medium fixed
or they _may_ work with the 2ed drivers.  Yet others, apparently equal,
work in autoselect mode.

I'll have to study the adapter more closely (or ship it to Jim) to
figure out what's up.  Not having a working version is a problem, but
NetBSD seems to cope OK, so perhaps I can use that to compare notes.

++L

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[okamoto]

>Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition
>and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-(

I also used the (troubled) 3c509 card for BNC connector, where I have 
some reason which might not be concerned with others, probably. ☺
So, you mean that the 2nd edition can detect automatically where is
the wire, but the new release not?  I suppose I set the card BNC intentionally
though...  It's now over my memory.

Thanks your comment.

kenji

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Russ Cox]

If it installed its own MBR there should be MBR...
before PBS...  You may need pbslba instead of pbs.
That is,

	disk/format -b /386/pbslba /dev/sdC0/plan9

Or maybe you already have pbslba and you need pbs

	disk/format -b /386/pbs /dev/sdC0/plan9

(it will just install a boot sector, not format).

	And something more: is it possible to use history
	and command completion with rc?

Not really.  I like this command (which Tom Killian
introduced me to) a lot though:

	g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/"
	#!/bin/rc
	
	{
		if(test -r /mnt/acme/acme/body)
			cat /mnt/acme/acme/body
		if not
			cat /dev/text
	} | grep '^[^ 	]*%[ 	]*'$1  |
		{echo; cat} | pr -t -n | sort -u +1 | sort -n |
		sed 's/^ *[0-9]+	//' | grep .
	
	# the silly {echo; cat} gets around pr printing "empty file" when
	# presented with no input.
	g%

It prints all commands in the current
window that begin with the given string.
For example, it prints the two lines marked with >>>
in the following.

	g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/"
	...
	g% cat /adm/users
	...
	g% " cat
>>>	g% cat /usr/rsc/bin/rc/"
>>>	g% cat /adm/users
	g%

Russ

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[pip]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 215 bytes --]

I've been using  a Logitech TrackMan Marble FX for about 
2 years now.  I swear by it. I think any decent computer 
store carries it. It does look a bit wacky, but it's a real starry 3½
button mouse.
-
pip


[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1535 bytes --]

From: jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:11:04 -0400
Message-ID: <200007131411.KAA28370@cse.psu.edu>

	>really, invest in a good three
	>button mouse.
	>: anothy;

of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can
be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out.

--jim

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Russ Cox]

	of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can
	be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out.

i've been digging around in places
where you can find used computer
parts.  the ps2 version of the good
logitech mouse is m-cq38 and the
serial is m-ml38 (part numbers).
the 3 is 3-button and the 8 the
shape of the mouse, i'm pretty sure.

there are still a number of places
on the web that sell ``mouseman for
laptops'', which is the same mouse.
it also goes under the name
``mouseman ii classic'' and ``mousemn sensa'',
according to logitech's web page,
but i haven't found either of those
listed anywhere.

russ

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Anthony Sorace]

i've been using the TrackMan for a good while, as
well, and am equally pleased. it's got the nice
added bonus of taking up much less desk space, too.
as most people seem not to make good mice any more,
it's a good bet, if it comes in a left-handed
version. i also use a Logitech MouseMan, from just
before they all went down hill. it's the purple
and grey one (matches a mountain bike i used to
have) and has one extra button by the thumb.
: anothy;

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Lucio De Re]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 10:11:04AM -0400, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote:
> 
> 	>really, invest in a good three
> 	>button mouse.
> 	>: anothy;
> 
> of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can
> be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out.
> 
You'll hate this :-)  I have just collected five 3-button logitechs, four
of them square (I already have two of those) and one sligthly oval, all of
them symmetric.  And I can probably get more, 'cause the crowd I got them
from seem to get them with some obsolete computers they buy to run MS-DOS
(PABX monitoring software) on, and have no use whatesoever for them.

The price?  Zilch, 'cept one of them has lost one of those nylon feet that
probably make all the difference.  I guess I'll have to keep that one for
spares.  Sadly, it is probably not worth it to send you a few, as it will
cost too much in shipping.

BTW, I understand that recent releases of XFree86 can treat the new
generation of mice (the ones with the rather female appearance, if you'll
excuse the indelicacy) as if they were multibutton, doing all sorts of
clever things like scrolling and the like.  I've seen it in action, and
it was quite impressive, although I must confess I don't understand quite
how it was done.

And,
> --jim

I haven't forgotten about the odd 3C509 adapter, in fact, I tried it out,
and got it to work perfectly well by selecting the medium in advance (BNC
- my office is almost intentionally anti-diluvian).  I guess there are a
few specimens out there that do not obey the incantations you take them
through.

If I wasn't using the card right now, I'd be playing with it more.  I do
have the results (roughly) of setting the debug option, but they weren't
terribly informative (to me).

As soon as I get a chance to look again, I'll be a little more thorough.

Another thing: I see that we're requested to notify "trouble" about
nodummyrr's we find.  I have a few such ethernet adapters here, but
they are pretty old and poorly labelled.  On the other hand, my old
Plan 9 installation has been running off them all along, and curiously,
the FS kernel did not seem to need the qualifier.  I thought it would
be worth mentioning, it may be preferable if the 3rd edition FS kernel
were more consistent :-)

Now let me go back to figure out why kenji can access his 2nd edition
and I just get "AS protocol botch"es when I try :-(

++L

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[jmk]

	>really, invest in a good three
	>button mouse.
	>: anothy;

of course, that's correct. however, can someone suggest where such a mouse can
be found? my old left-handed logitechs are wearing out.

--jim

Re: [9fans] plan9v3 won't start (PBS...Bad format or I/O error)

[Anthony Sorace]

//is it possible to use history and command completion with rc?

no. rc has neither of these functions. history is the job of the
windowing system - simply snarf your previous commands, edit in
place, send them down... it's much better than the history built
into most shells. you also have the _output_  of each command
right along side it. there simply is no command completion.

//is it possible to emulate the middle button on a 2-button-mouse?

yes. shift+right_button, i think. this'll work for many cases, but
you're still in bad shape when it comes to using Acme; too much
chording for this to be practical. really, invest in a good three
button mouse.
: anothy;