[9fans] graphics scaling

[9fans] graphics scaling

[Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan]

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hi,
to the extent i know there is no facility to scale graphics image in inferno
and plan9. long back when i went thru ATI graphics chip specification and
another set-top box ASIC spec, I found that these accelerations are
supported in hardware. here are my questions along these lines:

- do other platforms like Windows, Mac use the hardware facilities like this
to do image scaling (like submit the task to graphics card, then read the
result back)?
- do plan9, inferno graphics modules do this? to the extent i know they
dont.
- how is graphics scaling done in plan9/inferno? are there any software
implementations like library routines written?
- are there any command-line tools to rescale images, etc? i remember
earlier edition of plan9 had command-line tools.

please provide me any pointers.

thanks
dharani

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Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Richard Miller]

> - are there any command-line tools to rescale images, etc? i remember
> earlier edition of plan9 had command-line tools.

resample(1)

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[cej]

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>> - are there any command-line tools to rescale images, etc? i remember
>> earlier edition of plan9 had command-line tools.

>resample(1)



/n/sources/contrib/pac/sys/src/ape/cmd/img/netpbm-10.26.1.tbz

++pac.

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Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan]

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Hi Richard/pac,
thanks for the quick response and info.

i will try it out as soon as i am able to use some plan9. currently my old
plan9 machine is almost dead and i am fighting with VMs to install plan9.
luckily i also bought a copy of vmware fusion today. so i am trying with it
too.

thanks
dharani

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:52 AM, <cej@gli.cas.cz> wrote:

>
>
>
> >> - are there any command-line tools to rescale images, etc? i remember
> >> earlier edition of plan9 had command-line tools.
>
> >resample(1)
>
>
>
> /n/sources/contrib/pac/sys/src/ape/cmd/img/netpbm-10.26.1.tbz
>
> ++pac.
>

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Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Steve Simon]

Re: fusion
would 9vx running under linux be an interesting option?

re: resample
If you are experimenting with interploation a zoneplate is one of
the best test signals to check your work on, though its
interpretation can be tricky.

/n/sources/contrib/steve/zoneplate.c
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1980-09.pdf
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1978-23.pdf

I thought I remembered page(1) had a simpler interpolation algorithm
which was much faster but much more prone to aliasing, however
looking at the code it seems to use the same kaiser window method.
maybe somone else will remember that code?

for a long time the problem of using a graphics co-processor as a
general purpose Graphics CPU is the speed at which the processed
image can be read back from teh card. I believe there are cards
with dual pci express buses which allow symetric access to the
frame buffer which sidestep this problem (see discussion on 9fans
a month or so ago). If you are resizing the image only for display
like page(1) does this is a non-problem of course.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[erik quanstrom]

> with dual pci express buses which allow symetric access to the
> frame buffer which sidestep this problem (see discussion on 9fans

reference?  pci express is symmetric.  if there's
asymmetry between r and w it's not because of
bus symmetry.

- erik

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Brian L. Stuart]

> would 9vx running under linux be an interesting option?

I think so.  These days, if I'm not booting into Plan 9 directly,
9vx is the only way I'm running it.  For that matter, I don't
think I've fired up drawterm in months.  I did run into a few
weird things in Linux, but I've been using it mostly in FreeBSD
for a while, and it's been pretty solid.

BLS

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[erik quanstrom]

it's not quite as fun to work with.

beware % with signed quantities.  gcc likes
negative results such situtations.  not a good
idea for array indexing.

e.g.
ipaux.c:
	return (ulong)(sa[IPaddrlen-1]<<24 ^ sp<< 16 ^ da[IPaddrlen-1]<<8 ^ dp) % Nhash;

- erik

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Charles Forsyth]

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i've found it quite solid under Ubuntu 8.04,
and i'm running an old version of 9vx.
the last time i said that i'd had no trouble
it promptly blew up, but apart from that i haven't
had any trouble, once it starts up. i haven't used drawterm in ages,
except on windows.

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From: "Brian L. Stuart" <blstuart@bellsouth.net>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] graphics scaling
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:35:19 +0000
Message-ID: <122220081535.10459.494FB3B7000E70F8000028DB22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9B9D0E9A9B9C040D@att.net>

> would 9vx running under linux be an interesting option?

I think so.  These days, if I'm not booting into Plan 9 directly,
9vx is the only way I'm running it.  For that matter, I don't
think I've fired up drawterm in months.  I did run into a few
weird things in Linux, but I've been using it mostly in FreeBSD
for a while, and it's been pretty solid.

BLS

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[erik quanstrom]

reliable 9vx hang

acid -ltruss /bin/cal
acid: new()
acid: truss()

- erik

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Brian L. Stuart]

> i've found it quite solid under Ubuntu 8.04,
> and i'm running an old version of 9vx.
> the last time i said that i'd had no trouble
> it promptly blew up, but apart from that i haven't
> had any trouble, once it starts up. i haven't used drawterm in ages,
> except on > windows.

The main issue I had was in the (probably unusual)
case where I was booting off a Plan 9 partition on
my local machine and running fossil/venti.  I would
sometimes get hangs that seemed to be stuck in infinite
loops.  I don't recall running into any real issues
when using it as a terminal taking its root from
a file server.  But even running fossil/venti on
a local partition, I haven't had any issues in FreeBSD,
so whatever the issue is/was, it's probably somewhere
in the way they do threading/locking differently.

Just by way of context, when I'm at home and my file
server is reachable, I run it as a terminal.  When I'm
not at home (work, Starbucks, Lower Sloblovia, etc)
I boot it up using a local Plan 9 partition.  Either
way, I'm pretty much running it all the time from my
.xinitrc script.  For that matter, it's been a while
since I last used the p9p acme.  I've been doing more
and more from 9vx.

BLS

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Paul Lalonde]

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Have the scrolling tags been ported into the mainline p9 yet?  That's
the main reason I still spend most of my time in P9P and SAC.

Paul (who hasn't yet managed to get his hands on an Intel PCIe
graphics adapter of any sort - frustr.  It's as if this company
specialized in integrated parts or something.)

On Dec 22, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Brian L. Stuart wrote:

>  For that matter, it's been a while
> since I last used the p9p acme.  I've been doing more
> and more from 9vx.

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Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Brian L. Stuart]

> Have the scrolling tags been ported into the mainline p9 yet?  That's
> the main reason I still spend most of my time in P9P and SAC.

Don't know.  The install I did in my local partition was
from an image from at least this summer, maybe older.
I'm at work at the moment and can't check to see if the
version on my file server (which I keep more up to date)
has the muti-line tag behavior.

To be honest, the only time I really notice it is when I'm
trying to get to the Del tag in a directory listing in a
really narrow column.

BLS

> On Dec 22, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Brian L. Stuart wrote:
>
> >  For that matter, it's been a while
> > since I last used the p9p acme.  I've been doing more
> > and more from 9vx.

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[erik quanstrom]

> > Have the scrolling tags been ported into the mainline p9 yet?  That's
> > the main reason I still spend most of my time in P9P and SAC.
>
> Don't know.  The install I did in my local partition was
> from an image from at least this summer, maybe older.
> I'm at work at the moment and can't check to see if the
> version on my file server (which I keep more up to date)
> has the muti-line tag behavior.

not ported.  i'm glad that that hasn't been ported back.
i find multi-line tags annoying 10 times for each time they
are useful.  is it a bug that tags still sometimes wrap and
sometimes clip long lines?

- erik

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[Russ Cox]

> not ported.  i'm glad that that hasn't been ported back.
> i find multi-line tags annoying 10 times for each time they
> are useful.

is this an abstract assertion or have you actually tried them?

russ

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Dec 22 13:57:35 EST 2008, rsc@swtch.com wrote:
> > not ported.  i'm glad that that hasn't been ported back.
> > i find multi-line tags annoying 10 times for each time they
> > are useful.
>
> is this an abstract assertion or have you actually tried them?
>
> russ

i've used them for quite some time with p9p.  i liked them at
first, but it didn't wear as well as i thought it would for me.
tags can be close to the length of the line and cause a second
line to appear and disappear.  i find that annoying and it
happens more often than i need a long tag.  esc esc then
jolts things back the way they were.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Acme scrolling tags (was Re: graphics scaling)

[Paul Lalonde]

That differs from my experience - I usually run 3 columns on a 30"
monitor, with tags open to two lines for most of my active windows;
the second line typically has an Edit command lying around because you
can't effectively 2-1 chord Edits.  The extra length is also useful
for dealing with the obscenely deep tree our development happens in
(Really, it was easier to fix the editor than to get the rest of the
team to move to a saner tree structure, aggravated by cross-platform/
cross-compile/cross-toolchain requirements that cause a 3 way cross
product of both build and some sources.  If only the world had been
sold on Plan9 in 1993).

I use a mouse with a big click-able scroll wheel (yes, the cheap Dell
ones) that lets me do my button 2 clicks well enough, but also let me
scoll through my windows and tags - I find tag collapse and expansion
really nice with the scroll wheel.

Paul

On 22-Dec-08, at 11:42 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:

>
> On Mon Dec 22 13:57:35 EST 2008, rsc@swtch.com wrote:
>>> not ported.  i'm glad that that hasn't been ported back.
>>> i find multi-line tags annoying 10 times for each time they
>>> are useful.
>>
>> is this an abstract assertion or have you actually tried them?
>>
>> russ
>
> i've used them for quite some time with p9p.  i liked them at
> first, but it didn't wear as well as i thought it would for me.
> tags can be close to the length of the line and cause a second
> line to appear and disappear.  i find that annoying and it
> happens more often than i need a long tag.  esc esc then
> jolts things back the way they were.
>
> - erik
>

Re: [9fans] Acme scrolling tags (was Re: graphics scaling)

[erik quanstrom]

> (Really, it was easier to fix the editor than to get the rest of the
> team to move to a saner tree structure, aggravated by cross-platform/
> cross-compile/cross-toolchain requirements that cause a 3 way cross
> product of both build and some sources.  If only the world had been
> sold on Plan9 in 1993).

wily being from and of the unix environment
will substitute $fu for /some/long/string.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Acme scrolling tags (was Re: graphics scaling)

[Steve Simon]

> the obscenely deep tree our development happens in

I sympathise, though ours is not _that_ bad. I use Plan9 as my
desktop and mount parts of our server off a "work" dir in my home
directory. This way I can work with short paths whilst remaining
compatible with my colleagues.

just my 2¢

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Acme scrolling tags (was Re: graphics scaling)

[Paul Lalonde]

The P9P version has this too: acme -$
But that still doesn't address ease of Edit commands or tags full of
build config strings and other crap.  Yes, I've been relying more on
tags than guide files of late.

Paul

On 23-Dec-08, at 10:54 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:

>
>> (Really, it was easier to fix the editor than to get the rest of the
>> team to move to a saner tree structure, aggravated by cross-platform/
>> cross-compile/cross-toolchain requirements that cause a 3 way cross
>> product of both build and some sources.  If only the world had been
>> sold on Plan9 in 1993).
>
> wily being from and of the unix environment
> will substitute $fu for /some/long/string.
>
> - erik
>