[9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

Hello 9fans ...

I'm _totally_ new to Plan9! Two days ago I had never heard of
it. Yesterday I DLed the LiveCD - now I want to know more.

The closest I've come to such an OS as Plan9, is the Native Oberon
OS. I have a partition which I can overwrite. Does the LiveCD
installation process allow me to abort the process if I see that
things are not proceeding smoothly (like I need to gather some
hardware info, etc)?

Should I be installing Lucent's Plan9 or a more recent derivative, if
any?

Is there software available for this OS? Or do I have to write my own?

What is the primary development language for Plan9? C? What languages
have been ported to Plan9?

Where are the best docs? TIA...

--
Duke Normandin
Turner Valley, Alberta, Canada

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[andrey mirtchovski]

When you boot the live cd you'll have a pretty good idea whether your
system is supported -- if things are OK you'll get to a gui with
installation information. You'll be able to figure out whether you
want to try it or not even before you get to the hard drive
partitioning :)

There's no 'other plan9', WYSIWYG. There's another installation cd
with slightly more supported hardware called '9atom'. You can try that
if the current one doesn't work.

Failing the CD path, you can download 9vx and try the full Plan 9
environment hosted on your normal OS.

cheers

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:30 AM, Duke Normandin <dukeofperl@ml1.net> wrote:
> Hello 9fans ...
>
> I'm _totally_ new to Plan9! Two days ago I had never heard of
> it. Yesterday I DLed the LiveCD - now I want to know more.
>
> The closest I've come to such an OS as Plan9, is the Native Oberon
> OS. I have a partition which I can overwrite. Does the LiveCD
> installation process allow me to abort the process if I see that
> things are not proceeding smoothly (like I need to gather some
> hardware info, etc)?
>
> Should I be installing Lucent's Plan9 or a more recent derivative, if
> any?
>
> Is there software available for this OS? Or do I have to write my own?
>
> What is the primary development language for Plan9? C? What languages
> have been ported to Plan9?
>
> Where are the best docs? TIA...
>
> --
> Duke Normandin
> Turner Valley, Alberta, Canada
>
>

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Jacob Todd]

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On Jan 13, 2011 9:32 AM, "Duke Normandin" <dukeofperl@ml1.net> wrote:
>
> Hello 9fans ...
>
> I'm _totally_ new to Plan9! Two days ago I had never heard of
> it. Yesterday I DLed the LiveCD - now I want to know more.
>
> The closest I've come to such an OS as Plan9, is the Native Oberon
> OS. I have a partition which I can overwrite. Does the LiveCD
> installation process allow me to abort the process if I see that
> things are not proceeding smoothly (like I need to gather some
> hardware info, etc)?
>
You can, just reboot with ^t rr. ;)

> Should I be installing Lucent's Plan9 or a more recent derivative, if
> any?
>
There's a iso by erik quanstrom called 9atom. It has some extra hardware
support. Just google 9atom

> Is there software available for this OS? Or do I have to write my own?
>
There's plenty of software. Most of it is in contrib.

> What is the primary development language for Plan9? C? What languages
> have been ported to Plan9?
Ansi c with some changes.

>
> Where are the best docs? TIA...
See /sys/doc and the wiki. Also, you may want to google 9.intro.pdf.

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Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Jacob Todd wrote:

> On Jan 13, 2011 9:32 AM, "Duke Normandin" <dukeofperl@ml1.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello 9fans ...
> >
> > I'm _totally_ new to Plan9! Two days ago I had never heard of
> > it. Yesterday I DLed the LiveCD - now I want to know more.
> >
> > The closest I've come to such an OS as Plan9, is the Native Oberon
> > OS. I have a partition which I can overwrite. Does the LiveCD
> > installation process allow me to abort the process if I see that
> > things are not proceeding smoothly (like I need to gather some
> > hardware info, etc)?
> >
> You can, just reboot with ^t rr. ;)
>
> > Should I be installing Lucent's Plan9 or a more recent derivative, if
> > any?
> >
> There's a iso by erik quanstrom called 9atom. It has some extra hardware
> support. Just google 9atom
>
> > Is there software available for this OS? Or do I have to write my own?
> >
> There's plenty of software. Most of it is in contrib.
>
> > What is the primary development language for Plan9? C? What languages
> > have been ported to Plan9?
> Ansi c with some changes.
>
> >
> > Where are the best docs? TIA...
> See /sys/doc and the wiki. Also, you may want to google 9.intro.pdf.

^t rr  is cool
9atom noted
just Dled 9.intro.pdf

Thanks a bunch!

Just to be forewarned ...

When I start the install process from the Live CD, I'll probably be
asked to choose a partition where I want Plan9 to live, right?

I'll choose one; it'll warn me that the partition is already in use,
do I want to overwrite it? I'll reply, yes, and BOOM the partition is
committed to Plan9. The rest of my partitions are left alone! - right?
Much obliged.

--
Duke Normandin
Turner Valley, Alberta, Canada

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[erik quanstrom]

> When I start the install process from the Live CD, I'll probably be
> asked to choose a partition where I want Plan9 to live, right?
>
> I'll choose one; it'll warn me that the partition is already in use,
> do I want to overwrite it? I'll reply, yes, and BOOM the partition is
> committed to Plan9. The rest of my partitions are left alone! - right?
> Much obliged.

nice in theory.  in practice, make backups.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, andrey mirtchovski wrote:

> When you boot the live cd you'll have a pretty good idea whether your
> system is supported -- if things are OK you'll get to a gui with
> installation information. You'll be able to figure out whether you
> want to try it or not even before you get to the hard drive
> partitioning :)

Excellent..

> There's no 'other plan9', WYSIWYG. There's another installation cd
> with slightly more supported hardware called '9atom'. You can try that
> if the current one doesn't work.

It works. I've had Plan9 up and running from the Live CD.

> Failing the CD path, you can download 9vx and try the full Plan 9
> environment hosted on your normal OS.

That's great! I have "Native Oberon for Linux" running the very same
way. Best of both worlds - at a bit of a price though. :) Thanks for
the input.
--
Duke

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, erik quanstrom wrote:

> > When I start the install process from the Live CD, I'll probably be
> > asked to choose a partition where I want Plan9 to live, right?
> >
> > I'll choose one; it'll warn me that the partition is already in use,
> > do I want to overwrite it? I'll reply, yes, and BOOM the partition is
> > committed to Plan9. The rest of my partitions are left alone! - right?
> > Much obliged.
>
> nice in theory.  in practice, make backups.

I was waiting for that one to pop up. :)

If it's _that_ unpredictable, I think that I'll install it on a spare
box. FWIW, 8 mos ago, I installed XP on Part1; Linux on 2 (with the
swap on an extended partition); PcBSD on 3; and Native Oberon on 4.

used Gnome `gparted' to resize and move partitions, with XP still in
Part.1

Zero problems! No OS install tried to mess with another partition. So,
are you being overly cautious here, or is there a real danger that
Plan9 has a run-away?

--
Duke

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Gorka Guardiola]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Duke Normandin <dukeofperl@ml1.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
>> > When I start the install process from the Live CD, I'll probably be
>> > asked to choose a partition where I want Plan9 to live, right?
>> >
>> > I'll choose one; it'll warn me that the partition is already in use,
>> > do I want to overwrite it? I'll reply, yes, and BOOM the partition is
>> > committed to Plan9. The rest of my partitions are left alone! - right?
>> > Much obliged.
>>
>> nice in theory.  in practice, make backups.
>
> I was waiting for that one to pop up. :)
>
> If it's _that_ unpredictable, I think that I'll install it on a spare
> box. FWIW, 8 mos ago, I installed XP on Part1; Linux on 2 (with the
> swap on an extended partition); PcBSD on 3; and Native Oberon on 4.
>
> used Gnome `gparted' to resize and move partitions, with XP still in
> Part.1
>
> Zero problems! No OS install tried to mess with another partition. So,
> are you being overly cautious here, or is there a real danger that
> Plan9 has a run-away?
>

I haven´t seen Plan 9 do this, but better  safe than sorry...
-- 
- curiosity sKilled the cat

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Tassilo Philipp]

I'd say, it's not unpredictable, but just the sane way to do it, I mean, a
power outage is sometimes enough to screw something up... or maybe you
accidentally select the wrong partition, b/c the installer you are new to
confuses you in some ways, etc..

I never lost data in my life, and was always able to fix my partition
table, etc., but boy, sometimes it took me days to recover something, just
b/c I thought "I know what I'm doing", and it turned out that I hit return
too soon, etc..


> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
>> > When I start the install process from the Live CD, I'll probably be
>> > asked to choose a partition where I want Plan9 to live, right?
>> >
>> > I'll choose one; it'll warn me that the partition is already in use,
>> > do I want to overwrite it? I'll reply, yes, and BOOM the partition is
>> > committed to Plan9. The rest of my partitions are left alone! - right?
>> > Much obliged.
>>
>> nice in theory.  in practice, make backups.
>
> I was waiting for that one to pop up. :)
>
> If it's _that_ unpredictable, I think that I'll install it on a spare
> box. FWIW, 8 mos ago, I installed XP on Part1; Linux on 2 (with the
> swap on an extended partition); PcBSD on 3; and Native Oberon on 4.
>
> used Gnome `gparted' to resize and move partitions, with XP still in
> Part.1
>
> Zero problems! No OS install tried to mess with another partition. So,
> are you being overly cautious here, or is there a real danger that
> Plan9 has a run-away?
>
> --
> Duke
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[erik quanstrom]

> > Zero problems! No OS install tried to mess with another partition. So,
> > are you being overly cautious here, or is there a real danger that
> > Plan9 has a run-away?
> >
>
> I haven´t seen Plan 9 do this, but better  safe than sorry...

i've never seen this myself, but i recall this discussion

http://9fans.net/archive/?q=partition+overwritten

- erik

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

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On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, erik quanstrom wrote:

> > > Zero problems! No OS install tried to mess with another partition. So,
> > > are you being overly cautious here, or is there a real danger that
> > > Plan9 has a run-away?
> > >
> >
> > I haven´t seen Plan 9 do this, but better  safe than sorry...
>
> i've never seen this myself, but i recall this discussion
>
> http://9fans.net/archive/?q=partition+overwritten

Thanks for the heads-up!
--
Duke

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Federico G. Benavento]

I've trashed my partition table more than once in the past years
TeskDisk always saved my ass, I just booted a linux live cd,
download the static binary and fixed my partition table...

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Duke Normandin <dukeofperl@ml1.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
>> > When I start the install process from the Live CD, I'll probably be
>> > asked to choose a partition where I want Plan9 to live, right?
>> >
>> > I'll choose one; it'll warn me that the partition is already in use,
>> > do I want to overwrite it? I'll reply, yes, and BOOM the partition is
>> > committed to Plan9. The rest of my partitions are left alone! - right?
>> > Much obliged.
>>
>> nice in theory.  in practice, make backups.
>
> I was waiting for that one to pop up. :)
>
> If it's _that_ unpredictable, I think that I'll install it on a spare
> box. FWIW, 8 mos ago, I installed XP on Part1; Linux on 2 (with the
> swap on an extended partition); PcBSD on 3; and Native Oberon on 4.
>
> used Gnome `gparted' to resize and move partitions, with XP still in
> Part.1
>
> Zero problems! No OS install tried to mess with another partition. So,
> are you being overly cautious here, or is there a real danger that
> Plan9 has a run-away?
>
> --
> Duke
>
>



-- 
Federico G. Benavento

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Federico G. Benavento wrote:

> I've trashed my partition table more than once in the past years
> TeskDisk always saved my ass, I just booted a linux live cd,
> download the static binary and fixed my partition table...
>
> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

So have I! Thanks for the link. have you tried "gparted"? I have it as
a LiveCD. Hose a partition - no probs. Boot the CD; fix it; go for
lunch. :) I'm going to DL TestDisk anyway - you never know!
--
Duke

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Tassilo Philipp wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to edit the plan9.ini file on a
> PC, to set the source you want to boot from. However, I did that only
> once, and I don't remember the details... look up plan9.ini(8)
> (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/plan9.ini), boot(8)
> (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/boot) and booting(8)
> (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/booting) for details, etc..

Thanks for all the homework! :))

Much appreciated ...
--
Duke

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, erik quanstrom wrote:

> On Thu Jan 13 11:53:18 EST 2011, tphilipp@potion-studios.com wrote:
> > If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to edit the plan9.ini file on a
> > PC, to set the source you want to boot from. However, I did that only
> > once, and I don't remember the details... look up plan9.ini(8)
> > (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/plan9.ini), boot(8)
> > (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/boot) and booting(8)
> > (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/booting) for details, etc..
>
> if you're using 9atom. all you need to do is replace hard-coded
> references to the boot device with $bootdev.  e.g.,
>
> bootargs=local!$bootdev/fs
> bootfile=$bootdev!9fat!9pccpu.gz
>
> this particular example is for a kfs install.

Have no clue what you're talking about! No problem though ... Let me
do some reading of the recommended docs above. I'm sure they will go a
long way in clueing me in. :) Remember, I've _never_ , EVER, messed
with Plan9. So, it's all new to me.
--
Duke

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu Jan 13 12:34:07 EST 2011, skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com wrote:
> regarding the occasional missing vid/did's it seems that frequently it
> involves adding the did to the right place in the corresponding driver
> and recompiling.  it would be a nice if there was a way to map new
> vid/did's to known driver+did's in plan9.ini.

i know, we could have xml configuration files and ....
wait, you know where to find osx.
or i know, we could have this odd little pseudo database and ...
wait, i'm sure you know where to find windows.  :-)

seriously, there's often more than adding two shorts to a program,
and i thought that one simplifying bit about plan 9 is that recompiling
should be easy.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Skip Tavakkolian]

regarding the occasional missing vid/did's it seems that frequently it
involves adding the did to the right place in the corresponding driver
and recompiling.  it would be a nice if there was a way to map new
vid/did's to known driver+did's in plan9.ini.

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu Jan 13 11:53:18 EST 2011, tphilipp@potion-studios.com wrote:
> If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to edit the plan9.ini file on a
> PC, to set the source you want to boot from. However, I did that only
> once, and I don't remember the details... look up plan9.ini(8)
> (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/plan9.ini), boot(8)
> (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/boot) and booting(8)
> (http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/booting) for details, etc..

if you're using 9atom. all you need to do is replace hard-coded
references to the boot device with $bootdev.  e.g.,

bootargs=local!$bootdev/fs
bootfile=$bootdev!9fat!9pccpu.gz

this particular example is for a kfs install.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Tassilo Philipp]

If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to edit the plan9.ini file on a
PC, to set the source you want to boot from. However, I did that only
once, and I don't remember the details... look up plan9.ini(8)
(http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/plan9.ini), boot(8)
(http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/boot) and booting(8)
(http://lsub.org/magic/man2html/8/booting) for details, etc..

> @Gorka Guardiola
> @Tassilo Philipp
>
> Thanks for the warnings, and friendly advice :)
>
> I think I'll just use a bare 2nd HDD on the same machine, or a junker
> box kicking around.
>
> Do you guys know if Plan9 will boot off a slave HDD?
>
> --
> Duke
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Noob says Hi ..

[Duke Normandin]

@Gorka Guardiola
@Tassilo Philipp

Thanks for the warnings, and friendly advice :)

I think I'll just use a bare 2nd HDD on the same machine, or a junker
box kicking around.

Do you guys know if Plan9 will boot off a slave HDD?

--
Duke