[9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Nolan Hamilton]

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Well apparently plan9 runs on alpha, but I can not get plan9 to run on my
DS10L.  Can anyone help?

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Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[ron minnich]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Nolan Hamilton
<nolan.h.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well apparently plan9 runs on alpha, but I can not get plan9 to run on my
> DS10L.  Can anyone help?
>

I can help the DS10L.

1. open window
2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
3. slide DS10L out window

now that was easy!

Of course, there are also experiments involving sledgehammers and
large rocks if you want to get more creative.

I do love the DS10L.

ron

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[lucio]

> I can help the DS10L.
>
> 1. open window
> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
> 3. slide DS10L out window

Sure, but how do you "keep Plan 9 honest" if no one checks
portability?

In fact, it's already very hard to find porting opportunities for Plan
9, regretfully.  An example I raised at IWP9 in Volos was the Linux
emulation and the possibility that it could be ported to the PowerPC.
Forsyth pointed out that there are no mere mortal accessible platforms
for experimentation in this direction.

Now, what's preferable: no experimentation or being able to test on an
old RS6000 or power-MAC?

++L

PS: This is a bit of a call for interest in architectures other than
the 386, no matter how much Ron tries to discourage it.  Hey, why
should I not be able to test the BG code at home?!  :-)

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Uriel]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:12 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>> I can help the DS10L.
>>
>> 1. open window
>> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
>> 3. slide DS10L out window
>
> Sure, but how do you "keep Plan 9 honest" if no one checks
> portability?

Don't worry. The holy keepers of the amd64 kernel do that for us.
There is nothing to fear, go back to sleep.

> In fact, it's already very hard to find porting opportunities for Plan
> 9, regretfully.  An example I raised at IWP9 in Volos was the Linux
> emulation and the possibility that it could be ported to the PowerPC.
> Forsyth pointed out that there are no mere mortal accessible platforms
> for experimentation in this direction.
>
> Now, what's preferable: no experimentation or being able to test on an
> old RS6000 or power-MAC?

There is supposedly a partial port to the iMac (or some other ancient
jobsian hardware) by some university somewhere, last I heard the code
was only available under some bizarre access restrictions that I never
quite understood nor do I remember, npe was even able to procure
himself access to the server in question after jumping through some
hoops, supposedly to finish the port, no idea what came of that...
this was years ago.

> ++L
>
> PS: This is a bit of a call for interest in architectures other than
> the 386, no matter how much Ron tries to discourage it.  Hey, why
> should I not be able to test the BG code at home?!  :-)

Because we unworthy dirty masses should not bother with what we are
not supposed to be interested in.

uriel

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[lucio]

> Because we unworthy dirty masses should not bother with what we are
> not supposed to be interested in.

This is getting tedious.  Have you considered psychotherapy for your
paranoia?

And what exactly is it that is being denied to you and you deem to be
your undeniable right?

++L

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[erik quanstrom]

> PS: This is a bit of a call for interest in architectures other than
> the 386, no matter how much Ron tries to discourage it.  Hey, why
> should I not be able to test the BG code at home?!  :-)

what other architectures?

i'm not aware of anything price/performance-competitive
with intel with a open architecture and a reasonable lifespan.
although we all complain about backward-compatability in
pcs, the original floppy/serial/keyboard, etc. code still work.

i'd be interested if anyone knows of an alternative architecture
that fits this bill.  (note cpu!=arch.)

- erik

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Nolan Hamilton]

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So I take it that you cant use plan9 on a DS10L?
If  you can though please tell me.

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Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[lucio]

> So I take it that you cant use plan9 on a DS10L?

Back to earth, I suppose :-)

I don't know the answer, but I suspect that if no one presents you
with a solution, it means you need to do the porting work yourself.
You will get assistance, but in my limited experience and knowledge it
is hard to do.  There's the rub.

++L

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Charles Forsyth]

>Forsyth pointed out that there are no mere mortal accessible [powerpc] platforms
>for experimentation in this direction.

certainly the (few) cheap ones that i knew have vanished.
there probably are conventional "development boards" but
those are typically too expensive to be helpful.
the situation is much better with ARM; the cost is low
but the turnover is still fairly high.

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[John Waters]

I would have opted for the obvious firearms-related solution. :)

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:19 AM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Nolan Hamilton
> <nolan.h.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well apparently plan9 runs on alpha, but I can not get plan9 to run on my
>> DS10L.  Can anyone help?
>>
>
> I can help the DS10L.
>
> 1. open window
> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
> 3. slide DS10L out window
>
> now that was easy!
>
> Of course, there are also experiments involving sledgehammers and
> large rocks if you want to get more creative.
>
> I do love the DS10L.
>
> ron
>
>

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[ron minnich]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:12 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>> I can help the DS10L.
>>
>> 1. open window
>> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
>> 3. slide DS10L out window
>
> Sure, but how do you "keep Plan 9 honest" if no one checks
> portability?
>

The Alpha is dead. It never ran 64-bit anyway. What are you proving
running a dead machine in a dead mode? Your time is worth more than
that.

go with the arm. The problem is that time is short, we have few
people, and putting lots of time into a dead machine really helps no
one.

The ARM is incredibly popular, wider usage than x86 from what I know,
and much more interesting. I think an ARM port to modern ARM platform
would really be wonderful.

ron

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[john]

> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:12 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>>> I can help the DS10L.
>>>
>>> 1. open window
>>> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
>>> 3. slide DS10L out window
>>
>> Sure, but how do you "keep Plan 9 honest" if no one checks
>> portability?
>>
>
> The Alpha is dead. It never ran 64-bit anyway. What are you proving
> running a dead machine in a dead mode? Your time is worth more than
> that.
>
> go with the arm. The problem is that time is short, we have few
> people, and putting lots of time into a dead machine really helps no
> one.
>
> The ARM is incredibly popular, wider usage than x86 from what I know,
> and much more interesting. I think an ARM port to modern ARM platform
> would really be wonderful.
>
> ron

I must grudgingly concur.  I'd love to boot Plan 9 on my old
Alphastation, but I'm probably going to keep VMS or maybe try a UNIX.
Let's let the system die--and I say that as a fan of old computers.

Rather than supporting lots of architectures, I'd rather we had
support for more hardware.  Instead of fixing the port of alpha, write
a couple device drivers; find an x86 itch and scratch it.


John

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[erik quanstrom]

> go with the arm. The problem is that time is short, we have few
> people, and putting lots of time into a dead machine really helps no
> one.
>
> The ARM is incredibly popular, wider usage than x86 from what I know,
> and much more interesting. I think an ARM port to modern ARM platform
> would really be wonderful.

i think that would be great, too but i can't think of any
arm platforms that are competitive.  any suggestions?

- erik

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[C H Forsyth]

>Instead of fixing the port of alpha, write
>a couple device drivers; find an x86 itch and scratch it.

that sounds like a plan

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

Well, I don´t know if it qualifies as a moderm arm platform, but once
I´m done with some usb stuff I´m doing we at lsub plan to port plan 9
to gumstix.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:21 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:12 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>>> I can help the DS10L.
>>>
>>> 1. open window
>>> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
>>> 3. slide DS10L out window
>>
>> Sure, but how do you "keep Plan 9 honest" if no one checks
>> portability?
>>
>
> The Alpha is dead. It never ran 64-bit anyway. What are you proving
> running a dead machine in a dead mode? Your time is worth more than
> that.
>
> go with the arm. The problem is that time is short, we have few
> people, and putting lots of time into a dead machine really helps no
> one.
>
> The ARM is incredibly popular, wider usage than x86 from what I know,
> and much more interesting. I think an ARM port to modern ARM platform
> would really be wonderful.
>
> ron
>
>

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[john]

> Well, I don´t know if it qualifies as a moderm arm platform, but once
> I´m done with some usb stuff I´m doing we at lsub plan to port plan 9
> to gumstix.
>
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:21 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:12 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>>>> I can help the DS10L.
>>>>
>>>> 1. open window
>>>> 2. look out, make sure no one is in the areas
>>>> 3. slide DS10L out window
>>>
>>> Sure, but how do you "keep Plan 9 honest" if no one checks
>>> portability?
>>>
>>
>> The Alpha is dead. It never ran 64-bit anyway. What are you proving
>> running a dead machine in a dead mode? Your time is worth more than
>> that.
>>
>> go with the arm. The problem is that time is short, we have few
>> people, and putting lots of time into a dead machine really helps no
>> one.
>>
>> The ARM is incredibly popular, wider usage than x86 from what I know,
>> and much more interesting. I think an ARM port to modern ARM platform
>> would really be wonderful.
>>
>> ron
>>
>>

That sounds interesting, especially given how cheap gumstix are.  Ron
suggested doing the same thing last spring but we never got to it.

You can even get video systems for the gumstix, right? It would be fun
to glue one of those to the back of an LCD and have a nice terminal :)


John

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Steve Simon]

> I´m done with some usb stuff I´m doing we at lsub plan to port plan 9
> to gumstix.

excellent, I will buy one and join in once you chose a device.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Anthony Sorace]

> i think that would be great, too but i can't think of any
> arm platforms that are competitive.  any suggestions?

it depends in large part what "competitive" means, of course. most of
the ARM stuff i'm aware of is handheld or embedded, where intel
architectures have a really hard time being "competitive" in terms of
heat and space.

handheld devices are a bit tricky because they have more churn in
parts between models, but there's plenty of interesting ones to pick
from. i like nokia's line, and would love to see a port of Plan 9 (or
Inferno) to the 770 or N800 (there's an even newer one, but i forget
the model off hand and don't own one of those).

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[john]

>> i think that would be great, too but i can't think of any
>> arm platforms that are competitive.  any suggestions?
>
> it depends in large part what "competitive" means, of course. most of
> the ARM stuff i'm aware of is handheld or embedded, where intel
> architectures have a really hard time being "competitive" in terms of
> heat and space.
>
> handheld devices are a bit tricky because they have more churn in
> parts between models, but there's plenty of interesting ones to pick
> from. i like nokia's line, and would love to see a port of Plan 9 (or
> Inferno) to the 770 or N800 (there's an even newer one, but i forget
> the model off hand and don't own one of those).

Maybe http://www.uniconsys.com/index.php/platforms ?


John

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Iruata Souza]

till there, if you want to try something in software take a look at
http://bitmux.org/qemu.html.
i talked once to ron about porting to the gumstix as a gsoc project
i'd be willing to do.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>> I´m done with some usb stuff I´m doing we at lsub plan to port plan 9
>> to gumstix.
>
> excellent, I will buy one and join in once you chose a device.
>
> -Steve
>
>

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

we already have a device.
In fact, Enrique is working on the ethernet driver for Inferno.


On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
> till there, if you want to try something in software take a look at
> http://bitmux.org/qemu.html.
> i talked once to ron about porting to the gumstix as a gsoc project
> i'd be willing to do.
>
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>>> I´m done with some usb stuff I´m doing we at lsub plan to port plan 9
>>> to gumstix.
>>
>> excellent, I will buy one and join in once you chose a device.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Benjamin Huntsman]

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I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to non-x86 hardware is being discussed...

would anyone be interested in an IBM p630 (POWER4+)?

-Ben

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Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[john]

> I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to non-x86 hardware is being discussed...
>
> would anyone be interested in an IBM p630 (POWER4+)?
>
> -Ben

Only if I don't have to port Plan 9 to it ;)


John

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[erik quanstrom]

> > I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to non-x86 hardware is being discussed...
> >
> > would anyone be interested in an IBM p630 (POWER4+)?
> >
> > -Ben
>
> Only if I don't have to port Plan 9 to it ;)

it's got x86 post codes on the front panel!

- erik

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[ron minnich]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:22 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:

> it's got x86 post codes on the front panel!
>

but 3 digits right? 50% more POST!

ron

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu Dec 18 19:43:11 EST 2008, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:22 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
>
> > it's got x86 post codes on the front panel!
> >
>
> but 3 digits right? 50% more POST!

i never saw one with three digits, but i think
a third digit would give you 1600% more post!
woo hoo.

- erik

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[Nick LaForge]

>  I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to non-x86 hardware is being discussed...

seeing that gumstix has been mentioned...

sitting on my desk is an assembled gumstix (no chassis) that had been
intended to be my wearable plan9 terminal.

my idea was to run several full framebuffers that could be panned on
the touchscreen and displayed on the touchscreen itself or some other
screen on the network.  Maybe switching framebuffers by tapping, and
wearing the keyboard on the body.

i haven't touched it.  Perhaps somebody here can make use of it before
I get around to doing this:

1 x gumstix verdex XL6P (GS270-XL6P)
1 x consoleLCD16-vx (PKG10016)
1 x netCF-vx (PKG10035)
1 x Samsung™ 4.3" LCD panel (LTE430WQF0)

(plus various cables and ac power unit for testing)

nkl

Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?

[john]

>>  I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to non-x86 hardware is being discussed...
>
> seeing that gumstix has been mentioned...
>
> sitting on my desk is an assembled gumstix (no chassis) that had been
> intended to be my wearable plan9 terminal.
>
> my idea was to run several full framebuffers that could be panned on
> the touchscreen and displayed on the touchscreen itself or some other
> screen on the network.  Maybe switching framebuffers by tapping, and
> wearing the keyboard on the body.
>
> i haven't touched it.  Perhaps somebody here can make use of it before
> I get around to doing this:
>
> 1 x gumstix verdex XL6P (GS270-XL6P)
> 1 x consoleLCD16-vx (PKG10016)
> 1 x netCF-vx (PKG10035)
> 1 x Samsung™ 4.3" LCD panel (LTE430WQF0)
>
> (plus various cables and ac power unit for testing)
>
> nkl

That sounds awesome, and a lot like something I've wanted to make for
a long time...  just never put up the $$$$ to get the hardware :)
Hopefully you or somebody can make it a reality, because I'd love a
wearable Plan 9 terminal.

John