[9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

For a notebook or Plan 9 at home, is it possible to use fossil
without venbti instead of kfs?
I can't find any good reason to use venti for those purposes.
Is there any?

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[Russ Cox]

> For a notebook or Plan 9 at home, is it possible to use fossil
> without venbti instead of kfs?
> I can't find any good reason to use venti for those purposes.
> Is there any?

the dump takes up much less space if you store it on venti.
using venti also makes backup easier.

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

>> For a notebook or Plan 9 at home, is it possible to use fossil
>> without venbti instead of kfs?
>> I can't find any good reason to use venti for those purposes.
>> Is there any?
>
> the dump takes up much less space if you store it on venti.
> using venti also makes backup easier.

I doubt how eagerly we need dump function for such as personal
use by notebook or at home task.
If we can use fossil instead of kfs, we can use secure and long name
capable file system for personal use.    Is it ridicurous?

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[David Presotto]

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I use a ventiless fossil on my notebook.  However, I have a whole
company worth of file servers etc to backup to.

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From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:50:13 +0900
Message-ID: <3ba564280bd726d2271b9d2b264d17d0@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>

>> For a notebook or Plan 9 at home, is it possible to use fossil
>> without venbti instead of kfs?
>> I can't find any good reason to use venti for those purposes.
>> Is there any?
>
> the dump takes up much less space if you store it on venti.
> using venti also makes backup easier.

I doubt how eagerly we need dump function for such as personal
use by notebook or at home task.
If we can use fossil instead of kfs, we can use secure and long name
capable file system for personal use.    Is it ridicurous?

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> I use a ventiless fossil on my notebook.  However, I have a whole
> company worth of file servers etc to backup to.

I'm now considering to make version-up of my Plan 9 system
(kfs file server + terminals), and have a plan to buy a notebook
for my work (education, and presentation use), and considered
what is the best system to me.

I have full file server at working, and I can refer to it anytime if
neccessary.   In such a situation, I need a lighter Plan 9 on a notebook
or for home task.   For such purpose, we now only have kfs fileserver.
If we could have fossil without venti for such purpose, it may help
me, and peobably help many who are planing to use Plan 9 system
for their introductory system.   How about this?

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[mirtchov]

>
> I have full file server at working, and I can refer to it anytime if
> neccessary.   In such a situation, I need a lighter Plan 9 on a notebook
> or for home task.   For such purpose, we now only have kfs fileserver.
> If we could have fossil without venti for such purpose, it may help
> me, and peobably help many who are planing to use Plan 9 system
> for their introductory system.   How about this?


If you boot a fossil-based system without a venti server fossil will
complain that it can't find it and that's it.  there are no other
problems and you will be able to use it normally, as long as you don't
set any snaptimes (see fossilcons(8)).

so, in short, you should be fine, until it crashes.  since it's a
light system and will probably carry little important data not backed
up on your main server it should be fine.

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> If you boot a fossil-based system without a venti server fossil will
> complain that it can't find it and that's it.  there are no other
> problems and you will be able to use it normally, as long as you don't
> set any snaptimes (see fossilcons(8)).

Oh, I see!
I'll try it.  Thank you very  much.

> so, in short, you should be fine, until it crashes.  since it's a
> light system and will probably carry little important data not backed
> up on your main server it should be fine.

I'll never do any heavy work on those light Plan 9 system, many are
for presentation and just read/or make small change to the sources
at home.   This end of the year I may use it some heavyly though.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[ron minnich]

i like having the venti on my notebook, just my $.02. I can screw up
pretty badly and still recover, even when not on the network.

ron

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> i like having the venti on my notebook, just my $.02.

In that case, how big the disk space for venti you are planning?
Does the notebook have another OS on itself?

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> Does the notebook have another OS on itself?

In my case, I'll have Windows XP on that notebook, probably.
Don't blame please.  It's for my work, presentation, I'm intending
to use it.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[ron minnich]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:

> In that case, how big the disk space for venti you are planning?
> Does the notebook have another OS on itself?

on my 20 GB disk, I have 6GB for each arena, 5GB fossil, and the usual
little partitions. I think the 5GB fossil is overkill, but I'm a newbie to
this stuff.

ron

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[mirtchov]

> on my 20 GB disk, I have 6GB for each arena, 5GB fossil, and the usual
> little partitions. I think the 5GB fossil is overkill, but I'm a newbie to
> this stuff.

any size fossil larger than a gigabyte is an overkill until you really
need the room -- then it becomes insufficient..

the 60GB venti at ucalgary has accumulated only 1.5GB (3.2
uncompressed) since june.  the 12GB fossil partition also looks
ridiculously empty:

	main: df
		main: 380,469,248 used + 12,052,914,176 free = 12,433,383,424 (3% used)
	main:

that after 4 days of uptime, storing 3 days worth of hourly snaps.

I know one person had problems with a 1GB fossil however -- he
simply couldn't store a file larger than that in it :)

andrey

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> I know one person had problems with a 1GB fossil however -- he
> simply couldn't store a file larger than that in it :)

You mean single file size over 1GB? ☺

Kenji

[9fans] Plan 9 and VMware-4.0 question..

[Ishwar Rattan]

Which video card is emulated in VMware?

-ishwar

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 and VMware-4.0 question..

[Russ Cox]

> Which video card is emulated in VMware?

It's a VMware-specific card, not a clone of
any real hardware.

Russ

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

>> on my 20 GB disk, I have 6GB for each arena, 5GB fossil, and the usual
>> little partitions. I think the 5GB fossil is overkill, but I'm a newbie to
>> this stuff.
>
> any size fossil larger than a gigabyte is an overkill until you really
> need the room -- then it becomes insufficient..
>
> I know one person had problems with a 1GB fossil however -- he
> simply couldn't store a file larger than that in it :)

As I'm getting more familier with fossil+venti, and yesteray, I reformatted
(actually re-prepped) one of our work space's fossil+venti file server's disk.

--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys    10453504 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/9fat
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  1062993408 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/cache
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys           0 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/ctl
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys 40020664320 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/data
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  3498247168 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/fossil
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys         512 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/nvram
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  8930334720 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/other
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys 40015954944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/plan9
-lrw------- S 0 sys sys           0 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/raw
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys   744089088 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/swap
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442450944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index0
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442450944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index1
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442450944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index2
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442451456 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index3

Here, we have 3.4GB fossil partition, and I got diskfull error to copy all
the staffs to the new disk.  (Venti has 120GB capacity, however, in this
case Venti is not concerned).   So, if you are planning to copy existing
large file system to a new fossil, you must be carefull to choose fossil
size.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[Axel Belinfante]

> Here, we have 3.4GB fossil partition, and I got diskfull error to copy all
> the staffs to the new disk.  (Venti has 120GB capacity, however, in this
> case Venti is not concerned).   So, if you are planning to copy existing
> large file system to a new fossil, you must be carefull to choose fossil
> size.

Or you must occasionally stop the copying process,
and do a snap -a ? (if i recall correctly) (and then restart the copyer)
I think that's how I copied some 10s of gig's of files onto a venti
through a narrow (1Gb?) fossil
(machine still in stage of being rebuilt, though).

Axel.

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> Or you must occasionally stop the copying process,
> and do a snap -a ? (if i recall correctly) (and then restart the copyer)
> I think that's how I copied some 10s of gig's of files onto a venti
> through a narrow (1Gb?) fossil
> (machine still in stage of being rebuilt, though).

snap -a here consumed three hours for about 2GB (supposed).

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> snap -a here consumed three hours for about 2GB (supposed).

Forgot, it took about one hour to copy them to the fossil.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[Axel Belinfante]

> > snap -a here consumed three hours for about 2GB (supposed).
>
> Forgot, it took about one hour to copy them to the fossil.

I don't recall the exact times/gigs I had here;
I think in the end I used a scheme of half our copy,
half our wait for snap -a to finish, half our copy, etc.

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

>> snap -a here consumed three hours for about 2GB (supposed).
>
> Forgot, it took about one hour to copy them to the fossil.

One more thing!
This machine is 1.6GHz Pen4 and 1GB memory with
two IDE HDDs, 40GB and 120GB.   Copied through 100MB
ether net.

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[andrey mirtchovski]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp wrote:

> snap -a here consumed three hours for about 2GB (supposed).
>

snap -a is now working for about two hours here for  a 6gb file, the entire
system has stopped, nothing is responding except the connections already
established (I can type 'msg' on the fossil console for example, or monitor
stats, but I can't open any new windows).

previous attempts to _copy_ the file to the same fossil caused a severe crash,
which I couldn't document. I needed to reinitialize from venti and lost
the day's work.

fyi: msg -m 100 -n 30

the last msg command, before the window became unavailable, showed nproc =
24...

I'll let it stay overnight, see how that goes...

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> I'll let it stay overnight, see how that goes...

Ok!
four hours to snap all the 3.2GB fossil to venti.

The conditions are as follows:

Pen4 1.6GHz, with 1GB memory
ATA100

sdC0: 40GB    (Many partitions)

--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys    10453504 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/9fat
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  1062993408 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/cache
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys           0 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/ctl
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys 40020664320 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/data
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  3498247168 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/fossil
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys         512 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/nvram
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  8930334720 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/other
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys 40015954944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/plan9
-lrw------- S 0 sys sys           0 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/raw
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys   744089088 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/swap
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442450944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index0
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442450944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index1
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442450944 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index2
--rw-r----- S 0 sys sys  6442451456 Dec 16 18:46 /dev/sdC0/v.index3

sdC1: 120GB  (Venti only)

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[mirtchov]

>> I'll let it stay overnight, see how that goes...
>
> Ok!
> four hours to snap all the 3.2GB fossil to venti.

I woke up to a live machine... Here's the culprit:

	main: msg
		msg -m 100 -p 30
		nmsg 100 nmsgstarve 12 nproc 30 nprocstarve 10
	main:

It never used to happen before since there were only a file server and
a cpu server + a drawterm.  I guess I just have more users :)

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[okamoto]

> Here, we have 3.4GB fossil partition, and I got diskfull error to copy all
> the staffs to the new disk.  (Venti has 120GB capacity, however, in this
> case Venti is not concerned).   So, if you are planning to copy existing
> large file system to a new fossil, you must be carefull to choose fossil
> size.

Of course, you can copy them part by part, which I was forced to do.
However, it's somewhat painfull. ☺

Kenji

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[Axel Belinfante]

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> Of course, you can copy them part by part, which I was forced to do.
> However, it's somewhat painfull. ☺

Agreed
(and the good news is that I may want/have to do it again,
 automatic 'snap -a' on almost-full-fossil would be handy)

Axel.

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[Ishwar Rattan]

On a side note. The wiki page only talks about on installation
using kfs, venti and fossil parts seems to be an addendum..
Is it possble to install wthout kfs uisng downloaded plan9.iso?
Currently I am running standalone cpuauth/terminal using kfs.

Any pointers wil be appreciated.
-ishwar


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, ron minnich wrote:

> i like having the venti on my notebook, just my $.02. I can screw up
> pretty badly and still recover, even when not on the network.
>
> ron
>

Re: [9fans] fossil, without, venti?

[ron minnich]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Ishwar Rattan wrote:

> On a side note. The wiki page only talks about on installation
> using kfs, venti and fossil parts seems to be an addendum..
> Is it possble to install wthout kfs uisng downloaded plan9.iso?
> Currently I am running standalone cpuauth/terminal using kfs.


use bleeding-edge, all will work fine with fossil.

ron