[9fans] indenting source?

[9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

Hi,

many sources in libc are written with four characters indent. What
editor have they been written with? sam is rather incovenient to
input text with indents other than one tab, or am I missing something?

David

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[andrey mirtchovski]

> Hi,
> 
> many sources in libc are written with four characters indent. What
> editor have they been written with? sam is rather incovenient to
> input text with indents other than one tab, or am I missing something?
> 
> David

which libraries are those?  i haven't seen anything but tabs for
indentation.

if you edit using acme(1) you can set $tabstop to whatever you like,
but the source will still have tabs.

andrey

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> > many sources in libc are written with four characters indent. What
> > editor have they been written with? sam is rather incovenient to
> > input text with indents other than one tab, or am I missing something?
> > 
> > David
>
> which libraries are those?  i haven't seen anything but tabs for
> indentation.
>
> if you edit using acme(1) you can set $tabstop to whatever you like,
> but the source will still have tabs.

You are right. There are tabs there.
I just cat /sys/src/libc/port/abs.c and saw 4 positions indent
in term. Under examination, there are tabs there, and they
show as 8 characters indents in sam.

Can it be controlled somehow in window?

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[rog]

> many sources in libc are written with four characters indent.

% cd /sys/src/libc
% grep '^ +[^*]' */*.c

gives just the following lines of code for me:

port/pow.c: zreturn:
port/strtoul.c: 	if(base<2 || 36<base)
port/strtoul.c:    Return:

(plus some table initialisation data, which doesn't count.)

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[boyd, rounin]

From: "David Tolpin" <dvd@davidashen.net>
> editor have they been written with? sam is rather incovenient to
> input text with indents other than one tab, or am I missing something?

pauvre cherie

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> > editor have they been written with? sam is rather incovenient to
> > input text with indents other than one tab, or am I missing something?
>
> pauvre cherie
>

I don't know what is that 'cherie' that is poor, but please
how can I make my text windows in rio show indents in increments of 8
for tabs, and not of 4?

Please use English.

David

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Rob Pike]

>
> I don't know what is that 'cherie' that is poor, but please
> how can I make my text windows in rio show indents in increments of 8
> for tabs, and not of 4?
>
> Please use English.
>

how about using shell?
	tabstop=8 rio

-rob

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> >
> > I don't know what is that 'cherie' that is poor, but please
> > how can I make my text windows in rio show indents in increments of 8
> > for tabs, and not of 4?
> >
> > Please use English.
> >
>
> how about using shell?
> 	tabstop=8 rio

Yes, I used grep to find that I must restart rio, not just
open a window, for the setting to take effect. It is obvious
when you know how it is working, but neither the page on 'window'
says anything about it, nor man rio mentions tabstop.

Besides, I also wondered in a followup, why acme repeats the
code in rio to figure out the value for tabstop? Is it intended
to run outside of rio? The code seems to be just copied from
rio.c.

The confusion has come from the fact that by default sam uses 8 spaces
per tab, rio uses 4 spaces for tab. And nowhere in the documentation (besides
the sources) could I easily find  how to affect it.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Presotto]

several people do indeed run acme instead of rio.  Rio just offers an interface within
each window that looks like what you get from the OS itself, i.e., rio's windows are
to a certain extent screen/mouse/keyboard VM's.  If you start up acme first, you
can live witout rio.

For that matter, you could start up sam instead of rio and do everything from there.
Just type a ! in the command window for running commands.  Might seem a bit limiting
though.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> several people do indeed run acme instead of rio.  Rio just offers an interface within
> each window that looks like what you get from the OS itself, i.e., rio's windows are
> to a certain extent screen/mouse/keyboard VM's.  If you start up acme first, you
> can live witout rio.

Thank you, I did not realize that. So I can launch a Plan 9 based 'kiosk'
with Acme as its only interface?

Great. That's what I need.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> from intro(1) which are the first manual pages you see when you open the book!

Thank you. I don't have the book, just read recommended articles
and man whatever when I have a question.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Charles Forsyth]

>>The confusion has come from the fact that by default sam uses 8 spaces
>>per tab, rio uses 4 spaces for tab. And nowhere in the documentation (besides
>>the sources) could I easily find  how to affect it.

          For historical reasons, sam uses a tab stop setting of 8
          spaces, while the other editors and window systems use 4
          spaces.  These defaults can be overridden by setting the
          value of the environment variable $tabstop to the desired
          number of spaces per tab.

from intro(1) which are the first manual pages you see when you open the book!

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

David Tolpin wrote:
> many sources in libc are written with four characters indent. What
> editor have they been written with? sam is rather incovenient to
> input text with indents other than one tab, or am I missing something?

8-character tab stops were standard in the world of DEC,
nicely fitting the 6-character identifier size.  Unix
inherited this..  As to handling other tab settings, my
"retab" utility is by far the most flexible I have seen,
and it works nicely with sam's | command.  You're welcome
to a copy; just send e-mail (that doesn't look like spam).

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Charles Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 206 bytes --]

well, to be fair then, one might consider grep'ing /sys/man/?/*
before complaining that something is undocumented.

not that there aren't indeed things, even important things,
that are not documented.

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From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] indenting source?
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:31:30 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403020931.i229VUgi071929@adat.davidashen.net>

> from intro(1) which are the first manual pages you see when you open the book!

Thank you. I don't have the book, just read recommended articles
and man whatever when I have a question.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Presotto]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 48 bytes --]

lookman helps too.  It is apropos BSD's apropos.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 4449 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 206 bytes --]

well, to be fair then, one might consider grep'ing /sys/man/?/*
before complaining that something is undocumented.

not that there aren't indeed things, even important things,
that are not documented.

[-- Attachment #2.1.2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2171 bytes --]

From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] indenting source?
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:31:30 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403020931.i229VUgi071929@adat.davidashen.net>

> from intro(1) which are the first manual pages you see when you open the book!

Thank you. I don't have the book, just read recommended articles
and man whatever when I have a question.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Geoff Collyer]

You don't even have to do that; you can just type

	lookman word

Thus `lookman tabstop' yields:

man 1 0intro # 0intro(1)
man 1 acme # acme(1)
man 2 html # html(2)

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> You don't even have to do that; you can just type
>
> 	lookman word
>
> Thus `lookman tabstop' yields:
>
> man 1 0intro # 0intro(1)
> man 1 acme # acme(1)
> man 2 html # html(2)

The problem is that I did not know that I must look for
'tabstop' until I looked into the source and then I didn't
need the man.

I tried 

man rio
man sam
man window

read the pages through and didn't find a single mention
of the way tab widths can be adjusted. I realize now that
grep'ing /sys/man/*/* with '[^a-z]tab' would bring the
answer, but I realize it only when I know already what
to look for. I didn't have the right question before I knew
the answer.

David

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Geoff Collyer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 165 bytes --]

`man acme' might have been a good guess.  `lookman tab stop' would
also have led you to the right pages.  Even `lookman tab width' would
have led you to acme(1).

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2748 bytes --]

From: David Tolpin <dvd@davidashen.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] indenting source?
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:50:46 +0400 (AMT)
Message-ID: <200403020950.i229ok5f072068@adat.davidashen.net>

> You don't even have to do that; you can just type
>
> 	lookman word
>
> Thus `lookman tabstop' yields:
>
> man 1 0intro # 0intro(1)
> man 1 acme # acme(1)
> man 2 html # html(2)

The problem is that I did not know that I must look for
'tabstop' until I looked into the source and then I didn't
need the man.

I tried 

man rio
man sam
man window

read the pages through and didn't find a single mention
of the way tab widths can be adjusted. I realize now that
grep'ing /sys/man/*/* with '[^a-z]tab' would bring the
answer, but I realize it only when I know already what
to look for. I didn't have the right question before I knew
the answer.

David

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> `man acme' might have been a good guess.  `lookman tab stop' would
> also have led you to the right pages.  Even `lookman tab width' would
> have led you to acme(1).

But I was not interested in doing it in acme.

My question was how to set tabstop to 8 in rio, actually, in a 
window. I naively tried 

tabstop=8
window

Didn't work, man rio says nothing. I then supposed that window
is just a shell script that triggers opening of a new window,
and went to the source tree to see where in rio getenv is called.

I understand it is all obvious for anyone who knows.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[lucio]

> 
> Thank you, I did not realize that. So I can launch a Plan 9 based 'kiosk'
> with Acme as its only interface?
> 
> Great. That's what I need.

Sure, but don't expect it to act as a prison.  It is only a little
less powerful than rio (as regards graphics) and has its own powerful
features.  But maybe by "kiosk" you intend something less conventional
than a restricting environment?

Of course, the private namespace allows you to apply restrictions, but
that applies to rio as well.

++L

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Geoff Collyer]

But as I said, `lookman tab stop' would have led you to 0intro(1).  A
little probing with lookman is always worth trying when in doubt.

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[David Tolpin]

> > Thank you, I did not realize that. So I can launch a Plan 9 based 'kiosk'
> > with Acme as its only interface?
> > 
> > Great. That's what I need.
>
> Sure, but don't expect it to act as a prison.  It is only a little
> less powerful than rio (as regards graphics) and has its own powerful
> features.  But maybe by "kiosk" you intend something less conventional
> than a restricting environment?

I did not mean restricting, 'kiosk' was the wrong word. I need to
establish a workplace for a particular workflow; instead of providing
a conventional environment, I would prefer to go with acme (I did
similar thing with Oberon and it was very successful, except for
some limitations of the underlying system). 

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[boyd, rounin]

> Please use English.

please think

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[boyd, rounin]

oh i understand now.  i admit,  i know nothing.  i can't even find the tab
key on my keyboard.  back to normal programming ...

Re: [9fans] indenting source?

[Richard Miller]

> i can't even find the tab
> key on my keyboard.

Tab keys are for wimps.  Ctrl-i does the job for me.