* [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
@ 2008-07-26 11:09 Sander van Dijk
2008-07-26 11:30 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-28 9:11 ` Greg Comeau
0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Sander van Dijk @ 2008-07-26 11:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
Hi 9fans,
Does anyone know what the meaning/origin of "//GO.SYSIN DD" in
bundle(1) is? I've seen this on other unix-likes as well, but I
thought I'd ask here since the awareness of historical context seems
to be quite a bit above average on this list.
Thanks, Sander.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-26 11:09 [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD Sander van Dijk
@ 2008-07-26 11:30 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-26 14:36 ` Rob Pike
2008-07-28 9:11 ` Greg Comeau
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2008-07-26 11:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 116 bytes --]
see these manual pages: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IEA1B640/12.0?DT=20000718114500
[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2125 bytes --]
From: "Sander van Dijk" <a.h.vandijk@gmail.com>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:09:37 +0200
Message-ID: <ba0d3bc70807260409j3d00b1f8x694641f7a296ae52@mail.gmail.com>
Hi 9fans,
Does anyone know what the meaning/origin of "//GO.SYSIN DD" in
bundle(1) is? I've seen this on other unix-likes as well, but I
thought I'd ask here since the awareness of historical context seems
to be quite a bit above average on this list.
Thanks, Sander.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-26 11:30 ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2008-07-26 14:36 ` Rob Pike
2008-07-28 11:39 ` Sander van Dijk
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Rob Pike @ 2008-07-26 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
I first saw it used in bundling software created by James Gosling,
and liked the (relevant, I might add) joke so much I put it in the
Plan 9 version.
-rob
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-26 11:09 [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD Sander van Dijk
2008-07-26 11:30 ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2008-07-28 9:11 ` Greg Comeau
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Greg Comeau @ 2008-07-28 9:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
In article <ba0d3bc70807260409j3d00b1f8x694641f7a296ae52@mail.gmail.com>,
Sander van Dijk <a.h.vandijk@gmail.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know what the meaning/origin of "//GO.SYSIN DD" in
>bundle(1) is? I've seen this on other unix-likes as well, but I
>thought I'd ask here since the awareness of historical context seems
>to be quite a bit above average on this list.
Wow, never thought I'd see that again in my lifetime :)
It's from JCL (Job Control Language) from IBM mainframes,
in short, the "statement" in your subject involved a way
to specify where your "default" input was coming from
(it had/has other attributes you could add to the line to
say more about the file etc). Dunno why it's coming along
here but probably some sort of emulator or something similar.
--
Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-26 14:36 ` Rob Pike
@ 2008-07-28 11:39 ` Sander van Dijk
2008-07-28 15:22 ` ron minnich
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Sander van Dijk @ 2008-07-28 11:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Charles, Rob, Greg,
Thanks for the context.
Greetings, Sander.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-28 11:39 ` Sander van Dijk
@ 2008-07-28 15:22 ` ron minnich
2008-07-29 17:42 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: ron minnich @ 2008-07-28 15:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
more useless crap from memory:
the actual correct usage is
//GO.SYSIN DD *
but of course the * would make things messy.
See this and realize this stuff is still being taught!
http://www.coba.unt.edu/itds/courses/bcis3690/bcis3690.htm
ron
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-28 15:22 ` ron minnich
@ 2008-07-29 17:42 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 17:52 ` Rodolfo kix Garcia
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Roman V. Shaposhnik @ 2008-07-29 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
ron minnich wrote:
> more useless crap from memory:
>
> the actual correct usage is
> //GO.SYSIN DD *
>
> but of course the * would make things messy.
>
> See this and realize this stuff is still being taught!
> http://www.coba.unt.edu/itds/courses/bcis3690/bcis3690.ht
So... for the dense ones (like myself), what IS the joke Rob was
referring to? JCL == Java Control Language?
Thanks,
Roman.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 17:42 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
@ 2008-07-29 17:52 ` Rodolfo kix Garcia
2008-07-29 17:56 ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-29 18:05 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-30 8:39 ` Greg Comeau
2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Rodolfo kix Garcia @ 2008-07-29 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Job Control Language, I am not sure, but I belive was/is used in batch
proccessing in the IBM Mainframes.
Roman V. Shaposhnik escribió:
> ron minnich wrote:
>> more useless crap from memory:
>>
>> the actual correct usage is
>> //GO.SYSIN DD *
>>
>> but of course the * would make things messy.
>>
>> See this and realize this stuff is still being taught!
>> http://www.coba.unt.edu/itds/courses/bcis3690/bcis3690.ht
> So... for the dense ones (like myself), what IS the joke Rob was
> referring to? JCL == Java Control Language?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 17:52 ` Rodolfo kix Garcia
@ 2008-07-29 17:56 ` erik quanstrom
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2008-07-29 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> Job Control Language, I am not sure, but I belive was/is used in batch
> proccessing in the IBM Mainframes.
if invented today, it would be called cobolscript.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 17:42 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 17:52 ` Rodolfo kix Garcia
@ 2008-07-29 18:05 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-29 18:14 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 18:41 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-30 8:39 ` Greg Comeau
2 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2008-07-29 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 513 bytes --]
>JCL == Java Control Language?
the Job Control Language for System/360
if you follow the link i gave you'll see more.
bundles are implemented by here documents,
and the end marker for the document must not appear
in the data, and IBM JCL syntax (even if it were strictly correct)
was unlikely to appear on Unix systems
but would still have a cheery familiarity to some.
the elaborate DD statement defines file associations for a job and
can manipulate permanent files (commonly used with IEFBR14)
[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3095 bytes --]
From: "Roman V. Shaposhnik" <rvs@sun.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:42:30 -0700
Message-ID: <488F5686.6030904@sun.com>
ron minnich wrote:
> more useless crap from memory:
>
> the actual correct usage is
> //GO.SYSIN DD *
>
> but of course the * would make things messy.
>
> See this and realize this stuff is still being taught!
> http://www.coba.unt.edu/itds/courses/bcis3690/bcis3690.ht
So... for the dense ones (like myself), what IS the joke Rob was
referring to? JCL == Java Control Language?
Thanks,
Roman.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 18:05 ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2008-07-29 18:14 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 18:41 ` Skip Tavakkolian
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Roman V. Shaposhnik @ 2008-07-29 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> JCL == Java Control Language?
>>
>
> the Job Control Language for System/360
>
Yeah, I kind of knew that ;-) I was trying to come
up with the best joke I could. If this is not it, I have
no clue what could be funny about JCL ;-)
> bundles are implemented by here documents,
> and the end marker for the document must not appear
> in the data, and IBM JCL syntax (even if it were strictly correct)
> was unlikely to appear on Unix systems
> but would still have a cheery familiarity to some.
> the elaborate DD statement defines file associations for a job and
> can manipulate permanent files (commonly used with IEFBR14)
>
Now this does make sense.
Thanks,
Roman.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 18:05 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-29 18:14 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
@ 2008-07-29 18:41 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-30 1:06 ` Brantley Coile
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2008-07-29 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> bundles are implemented by here documents,
> and the end marker for the document must not appear
> in the data
vague recollection (1982), it was something like:
//SYSIN DD *
data
records
go
here
/*
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 18:41 ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2008-07-30 1:06 ` Brantley Coile
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Brantley Coile @ 2008-07-30 1:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Now, if I can figure out how to do the over punch on this keyboard. :)
Job control language was more like assembler with very, very simple
operations. The problem was that a lot of verby things got put into the
operands.
DD means data definition. The first symbol, SYSIN in this case, is the
name that the program will open. The operands after the DD operation
specified the device at which SYSIN pointed. Splat was a sort of `here'
document. The /* was the end-of-file for it.
Everyone I knew carried the Brown book which has examples of the common
permutations. You had to modify for your local OS installation. The
Brown book was actually blue. The fellow should have been named Black.
Because after banging your head on JCL it was Black and blue--not
Brown and blue.
Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>> bundles are implemented by here documents,
>> and the end marker for the document must not appear
>> in the data
>
> vague recollection (1982), it was something like:
>
> //SYSIN DD *
> data
> records
> go
> here
> /*
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD
2008-07-29 17:42 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 17:52 ` Rodolfo kix Garcia
2008-07-29 18:05 ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2008-07-30 8:39 ` Greg Comeau
2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Greg Comeau @ 2008-07-30 8:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
In article <488F5686.6030904@sun.com>, Roman V. Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com> wrote:
>ron minnich wrote:
>> more useless crap from memory:
>>
>> the actual correct usage is
>> //GO.SYSIN DD *
>>
>> but of course the * would make things messy.
>>
>> See this and realize this stuff is still being taught!
>> http://www.coba.unt.edu/itds/courses/bcis3690/bcis3690.ht
>So... for the dense ones (like myself), what IS the joke Rob was
>referring to? JCL == Java Control Language?
I doubt it. Some files (some software packaged up) are make to unravel
and install themselves on a number of different systems just by running
the file, so I suspect it was a reference to something along those
lines, though I'm totally wild guessing myself, but suspect it
was being used something like a UNIX sh `here document', and he
thought that as cute enough to drag along :)
--
Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-07-30 8:39 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-07-26 11:09 [9fans] bundle //GO.SYSIN DD Sander van Dijk
2008-07-26 11:30 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-26 14:36 ` Rob Pike
2008-07-28 11:39 ` Sander van Dijk
2008-07-28 15:22 ` ron minnich
2008-07-29 17:42 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 17:52 ` Rodolfo kix Garcia
2008-07-29 17:56 ` erik quanstrom
2008-07-29 18:05 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-07-29 18:14 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2008-07-29 18:41 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-07-30 1:06 ` Brantley Coile
2008-07-30 8:39 ` Greg Comeau
2008-07-28 9:11 ` Greg Comeau
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