Re: [9fans] nice quote

[comeau@panix.com (Greg Comeau)]

In article <936A4BAB-7D9A-4B65-AB6A-C5EEA8E4326C@storytotell.org>,
Daniel Lyons <fusion@storytotell.org> wrote:
>On Sep 7, 2009, at 3:05 AM, Greg Comeau wrote:
>>> Some keep saying that we should use more complex languages in
>>> the introductory course because they're in some way easier.
>>> But I've yet to understand their definition of easier.
>>
>> I've seen this before.  It's usually a combo of people
>> not knowing what they're talking about, making stuff up
>> as they go along, generalizing their personal programming
>> universe, being elite, and, miscommunication their point.
>
>I have a friend who insists that every other language has been harder
>on him than macro assembler.

We all suffer some level of this syndrome from time to time.
It's easy to get set in out ways, easy to think we know it all
and have done everything, easy to think there isn't much else,
easy to think that thing or idea we don't understand hence has
to be a piece of garbage.  Etc etc.  So yeah, the harder
factor comes into play here too.  Other planes of thinking
need to compete with already existing and ingrained ways
of thinking, whether the already ones are poor, incomplete,
wrong, limited, or ignorant.

>And I think that's true, if you cannot
>understand how to program a machine other than by thinking about
>what's happening at the instruction level of the processor.

Probably.

>Each language provides its own view of the land. If you have a strong
>understanding of the hardware and wish to think in those terms you
>will probably find assembler or C to be your best friend. If you have
>a strong mathematical inclination Haskell will probably suit you
>better. I find Scheme introduces a model of computation which is a
>compromise between the two; close to the machine in memory, simple in
>syntax, and rather far from the machine in terms of continuations, but
>most of the code being in the middle anyway.

Something like that.  And the different mentalities can
be a real good mental block often.

>For some reason, the fact that we program rational machines in logic-
>based languages deludes us into thinking our experience is the same as
>everyone else's or our situation must be the same as everyone else's.

The malleablility involved is both a band aid and a sword :)

>I don't know anyone who likes to debate a programmer and isn't also a
>programmer; we are undoubtedly the most self-assured and non-
>empathetic group of people on the planet. We have every opportunity to
>be free of dogma, but our reason and our aesthetic reactions seem
>somehow to be soldered directly onto our emotions.

Hehe.

>A problem is that the world isn't as rational as we are. It often
>chooses based on expedience, popularity, rumor, or emotion.

I find that the programmers do this just as much, if not as well
with their own twists.
--
Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta!
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