Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

On Tue May  4 16:05:13 EDT 2010, jonas.amoson@home.se wrote:
> I am thinking of the durability of the URL:s for the
> various IWP9 articles. if www.iwp9.org will be reused
> for further hosting, a subdirectory (as in 'papers/4e/')
> might be a good idea.I suppose that some domain bloat
> is hard to avoid, when things are so decentralised ;-)

failure of vision on my part!  sorry.  i'll try to clean this
up soon.

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

erik quanstrom <quanstro@labs.coraid.com> said:

> On Tue May  4 16:05:13 EDT 2010, jonas.amoson@home.se wrote:
> > I am thinking of the durability of the URL:s for the
> > various IWP9 articles. if www.iwp9.org will be reused
> > for further hosting, a subdirectory (as in 'papers/4e/')
> > might be a good idea.I suppose that some domain bloat
> > is hard to avoid, when things are so decentralised ;-)
>
> failure of vision on my part!  sorry.  i'll try to clean this
> up soon.

Also, can we come up with a standard naming convention for the proceedings
papers?  My vote would be the first authors last name, year, and possibly
more.  For example:

  Quanstrom, E. "ATA au Naturel".  In 4'th International Workshop
  on Plan 9, University of Georgia, Athens, GA USA, October 21--23,
  2009, 51-56

  Quanstrom, E. "SD Refresh".  In 4'th International Workshop on
  Plan 9, University of Georgia, Athens, GA USA, October 21--23,
  2009, 45-50


would be Quanstrom2009a.pdf Quanstrom2009b.pdf or possibly something like
Quanstrom2009AAN.pdf Quanstrom2009SR.pdf  This would help with various
maintenance and automation tasks.

Erik, if you do not mind me mucking with it a little I can throw something
together and email you a tarball for review/comment.  I already have all the
pieces/parts together...

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

> would be Quanstrom2009a.pdf Quanstrom2009b.pdf or possibly something like
> Quanstrom2009AAN.pdf Quanstrom2009SR.pdf  This would help with various
> maintenance and automation tasks.

i'm not sure i understand how this would help.  currently
there is a single list of paper names.  for your use, these
names are random.  changing to a list of authors,
years and a seperate sequence list per author sounds at best
no less complicated to me.  for your use, i believe such a
list would still be random.

perhaps i should have named papers by the sha1score of
the pdf.

☺

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> i'm not sure i understand how this would help.  currently
> there is a single list of paper names.  for your use, these
> names are random.  changing to a list of authors,
> years and a seperate sequence list per author sounds at best
> no less complicated to me.  for your use, i believe such a
> list would still be random.

Many of the academics/researchers I work with use the author/year+ to help
find papers in collections without having to open up the DB.  It is typical,
at least in the circles I run in, to refer to important papers by the
author/date convention.  Also, I know that some of the bibliographic tools
support searching/naming papers using these types of keys.

If you do not like it, then fine, but keep in mind that I am not only working
on the iwp9 proceedings, but also working towards a complete list of all peer
reviewed plan9 literature (and I am up to maybe a couple hundred citations
already).  Having consistent automatable generating rules could help simplify
things...

Anyway, that's my vision of the future...

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> the one big push for new mexico is spaceport america ... maybe we'd
> get to see a test launch :-)
>
> but that's a serious hike from ABQ :-)

True, then we can maybe move the venue to Los Cruses, Truth or
Consequences, or maybe even Hatch (and right about time for the chili
festival) ;-)  I know an odd hole-in-the-wall biker bar down the road from
hatch that serves the WORST food imaginable...  I do not think I have any
connections to Spaceport America, but could give it a fly ;-)


  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

the one big push for new mexico is spaceport america ... maybe we'd
get to see a test launch :-)

but that's a serious hike from ABQ :-)

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Kim Shrier]

On May 15, 2010, at 10:12 AM, EBo wrote:

>
>> If I thought people would actually come, I would see if I could
>> organize
>> something in Ouray Colorado.
>
> Do you live in that neck of the woods?
>

Yes.  There aren't many tech people around here and I think it would
be great to get a group of Plan 9 people here.  However, since that is
unlikely, I am figuring out if I can make it to Seattle this year. I
have a client in Eugene Oregon that I visit and Seattle isn't that much
further.

Kim

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> If I thought people would actually come, I would see if I could organize
> something in Ouray Colorado.

Do you live in that neck of the woods?

> It is about 300 miles north of Albuquerque
> in the San Juan Mountains.  You get there by first flying to Denver,
> Phoenix, or Albuquerque, then catching a puddle-hopper to Montrose and
> then renting a car or catching a shuttle to go the remaining 35 miles to
> Ouray.  I think it fails the "transport hub" test but it would be
> equally
> inconvenient for everyone and the hotel rates are cheap in October.

ROFLOL!

This reminds me back in the 90's when they were rebuilding I25 through
Albuquerque and the I24/I40 interchange.  Things were a mess, and us locals
called the construction zone the orange barrel raceway.  Well, to break the
frustration one of the local radio stations hosted a competition where the
winner won an All Expenses Paid Vacation to Gimon Oklahoma where the orange
barrels are made.  To top things off, a farmer named Joe picked them up at
the regional airport in a tractor, and took them on the 40 minute ride to
their motor lodge hospitality suite.  I believe that the mayor gave them a
key to the city outhouse or something, and they were the guest judge for
the local chilli cooking contest...

I think if we really tried hard we could find a fun and completely
unacceptable locations.  My vote would be Illfeld New Mexico (population
~75), where I served my blacksmithing apprenticeship.  I think the only
public accommodations at all is the RV park 6 miles down the road.  No, we
would likely be pitching tents and hauling water ;-)


  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Kim Shrier]

On May 14, 2010, at 9:58 PM, EBo wrote:

>
>> I lived in NM for 8 years, I loved it, still do, but ABQ fails the
>> "transport hub" criterion.
>>
>> I had lots of complaints about that when we had conferences in
>> santa fe.
>
> Actually, Santa Fe is a pain to have as a destination for an
> international
> conference unless there is a reason to be at the capital or Los
> Alamos...
>
>
>  EBo --
>

If I thought people would actually come, I would see if I could organize
something in Ouray Colorado.  It is about 300 miles north of Albuquerque
in the San Juan Mountains.  You get there by first flying to Denver,
Phoenix, or Albuquerque, then catching a puddle-hopper to Montrose and
then renting a car or catching a shuttle to go the remaining 35 miles to
Ouray.  I think it fails the "transport hub" test but it would be
equally
inconvenient for everyone and the hotel rates are cheap in October.

Kim

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> I lived in NM for 8 years, I loved it, still do, but ABQ fails the
> "transport hub" criterion.
>
> I had lots of complaints about that when we had conferences in santa fe.

Actually, Santa Fe is a pain to have as a destination for an international
conference unless there is a reason to be at the capital or Los Alamos...


  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

I lived in NM for 8 years, I loved it, still do, but ABQ fails the
"transport hub" criterion.

I had lots of complaints about that when we had conferences in santa fe.

thanks

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> Seattle's fine.  Boston too would be fine.  I just don't like/trust
Logan.
>
> Now if someone in or around Albuquerque could schedule an IWP9 some year
> around the beginning of October....  Tough place to get to, but kill two
> birds w/ one stone (flight): IWP9 + Albuquerque International Ballon
> Fiesta.

I'm not currently living in Albuquerque, but I've lived there maybe half
my life.  I am also on the board of directors of a small non-profit which
operates out of Albuquerque and I have some interesting connections that
might be able to help at least set things up.  One of these connections is
an old friend who is a professional conference organizer for the Marriott.


In addition to the Balloon Fiesta, there are other potentially interesting
venues for day-trips such as one of the worlds largest trams (runs to a
10,000 foot mountain peak), wildlife refuges, Old Town, Pueblos, and for
the geekier there is Kirtland AFB, Sandia National Labs, and various tech
centers.  If we did not have the conference in a big hotel like the
Marriott, maybe we could get the HPCC at UNM to give us access to
conference rooms, etc. (which would likely cut down on expenses).

Ron's comment on cost is important to note, but possibly more important is
that it becomes almost impossible to find ANY accommodations in the area at
that time.

So, if you were serious about this I take a look into it and find out what
it would take.

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Jeff Sickel]

On May 14, 2010, at 8:59 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> 
> plus hotel rates that go through the roof :-)

who needs a hotel when you're hitting the day break launch?

anyway, glad to see movement towards a 5th IWP9.  Let's hope Icelandic volcanos don't shut out our European friends.

-jas

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com> wrote:

> Now if someone in or around Albuquerque could schedule an IWP9 some year around the beginning of October....  Tough place to get to, but kill two birds w/ one stone (flight): IWP9 + Albuquerque International Ballon Fiesta.

plus hotel rates that go through the roof :-)

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Jeff Sickel]

On May 13, 2010, at 10:14 PM, ron minnich wrote:

> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com> wrote:
>> I do not like Boston as a destination.
> 
> it's ok, I think it's going to be seattle :-)

Seattle's fine.  Boston too would be fine.  I just don't like/trust Logan.

Now if someone in or around Albuquerque could schedule an IWP9 some year around the beginning of October....  Tough place to get to, but kill two birds w/ one stone (flight): IWP9 + Albuquerque International Ballon Fiesta.

-jas

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:27 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> On Thu May 13 23:15:28 EDT 2010, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:

>> I'm not taking for granted that we need one.
>
> i don't know making this needs to be a binary switch.


It doesn't. But somebody needs to sign up to get the proceedings
printed, and so on. Untli we get that, we don't have it.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu May 13 23:15:28 EDT 2010, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:45 PM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:
>
> > If you want a workshop format, then what are you looking for to be in the
> > proceedings?
>
> I'm not taking for granted that we need one.

i don't know making this needs to be a binary switch.

there was a lot of great participation through the
papers and works in progress that wouldn't have been
possible with a workshop format; not all of the authors
were able to make it.

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

>> If you want a workshop format, then what are you looking for to be in
the
>> proceedings?
>
> I'm not taking for granted that we need one.

ok.

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:45 PM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:

> If you want a workshop format, then what are you looking for to be in the
> proceedings?

I'm not taking for granted that we need one.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com> wrote:
> I do not like Boston as a destination.

it's ok, I think it's going to be seattle :-)

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> I think Skip and I and the other guys who are doing the work are
> settling on seattle. The site of the meeting is still not fixed. But
> the airport has great connections and great mass transit to a nice
> downtown; the hotel prices are great; it's a very nice city to meet
> in; and, well, nobody has come up with anything better than Skip came
> up with.

sounds good.

> That's my current take on it. I'm also proposing that we go with more
> of a "work" workshop format, i.e. people bring guruplugs and other
> cool hardware and we have sessions like
> using jtag on your plan 9 plug computer
> and other such down 'n dirty stuff, and people actual do lots of
> participation, rather than watch power point slides.

cool!  I just discovered a new embedded system which looks SO cool
<http://www.acmesystems.it/> and has the bare essentials that makes it ripe
for motion control and other fun stuff.  A workshop like that would be uber
fun.

If you want a workshop format, then what are you looking for to be in the
proceedings?


  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Jeff Sickel]

I do not like Boston as a destination.  The last four times I've travelled there, or through there, I've been stuck overnight in the airport.  As far as I'm concerned, tread carefully when flying through Logan.  Boston itself can be enjoyable, and the surrounding pirtions of the North East are nice.  It's just Logan that seems to curse me.

I'd offer up Chicago or Evanston, IL, and could coordinate arrangements as needed--there's a fantastic brewery not far from Fermi Lab and Argonne for long distant road trips.  But I think a shift to someplace with better connections for our european/southern hemisphere/pacific participants would be better.  Aka, I've been preparing for travel since the last IWP9.  

-jas

On May 13, 2010, at 1:16 PM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:

> Has anyone talked to Google about hosting it?
> 
> Chad, are you still with MIT?  Would a Boston/MIT opportunity be
> available?
> 
>  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

I think Skip and I and the other guys who are doing the work are
settling on seattle. The site of the meeting is still not fixed. But
the airport has great connections and great mass transit to a nice
downtown; the hotel prices are great; it's a very nice city to meet
in; and, well, nobody has come up with anything better than Skip came
up with.

That's my current take on it. I'm also proposing that we go with more
of a "work" workshop format, i.e. people bring guruplugs and other
cool hardware and we have sessions like
using jtag on your plan 9 plug computer
and other such down 'n dirty stuff, and people actual do lots of
participation, rather than watch power point slides.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Chad Brown]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 464 bytes --]

I'm vaguely affiliated with MIT still via their student computing group (SIPB).  
We've looked into convention/event support at MIT before, and the bottom
line is that such things really need a professor or department head as a 
sponsor.  

*Chad


On May 13, 2010, at 11:16 AM, EBo wrote:

> SeaTac.
> 
> Has anyone talked to Google about hosting it?
> 
> Chad, are you still with MIT?  Would a Boston/MIT opportunity be
> available?
> 
>  EBo 

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Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

On Wed, 12 May 2010 09:08:23 -0700, Chad Brown <yandros@MIT.EDU> wrote:
> FWIW, there are two Google offices in the Seattle area; one in Freemont
> and one in Kirkland, which is just across the water.    Either one
likely
> has a useful setup for recording presentations and might also be usable
for
> live streaming of same.   Of course, neither is particularly near
SeaTac.

Has anyone talked to Google about hosting it?

Chad, are you still with MIT?  Would a Boston/MIT opportunity be
available?

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Rodolfo (kix) <kix@kix.es> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> IMHO I prefer Europe. The first iwp9 was in Europe, the second in USA,
> third in Europe, the last in USA and the next?
>
> On the other hand, Seattle (WA) is very far far far far away from here
> (Europe). I cannot offer any place.

It's going to be decided by whatever person makes the effort to set it up.

seattle or SFO are not that bad on a direct flight. A few more hours
than, e.g., New York, but not that much more expensive.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Rodolfo (kix)]

Hi,

IMHO I prefer Europe. The first iwp9 was in Europe, the second in USA,
third in Europe, the last in USA and the next?

On the other hand, Seattle (WA) is very far far far far away from here
(Europe). I cannot offer any place.



On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Chad Brown <yandros@mit.edu> wrote:
> FWIW, there are two Google offices in the Seattle area; one in Freemont and one in Kirkland, which is just across the water.    Either one likely has a useful setup for recording presentations and might also be usable for live streaming of same.   Of course, neither is particularly near SeaTac.
>
> *Chad
>



-- 
Rodolfo García "kix"
http://www.kix.es/ ham: EA4ERH @ IN80ER

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Chad Brown]

FWIW, there are two Google offices in the Seattle area; one in Freemont and one in Kirkland, which is just across the water.    Either one likely has a useful setup for recording presentations and might also be usable for live streaming of same.   Of course, neither is particularly near SeaTac.

*Chad

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[David Leimbach]

I'd have pretty much no excuse for missing it... It's 20 minutes away :-)

On Saturday, May 8, 2010, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> Skip and I have been talking offline. I do think seattle is looking
> better and better.
>
> - hub city
> - good mass transit to a likely meeting place AND hotels right from the airport
> - huge range of hotels, with some good low cost ones
> - supportive organization for the meeting
>
> and, finally, I may be wrong but it seems a good middle ground time
> and space wise (and time-zone wise; everyone will be jet-lagged but
> me) for both the pacific rim and the folks from the EU.
>
> The Marin guys did get back to me and it would be cheap but I'm not
> sure everyone will want to go for a bunkhouse, and the mass transit
> issue to the headlands is a problem.
>
> ron
>
>

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

Skip and I have been talking offline. I do think seattle is looking
better and better.

- hub city
- good mass transit to a likely meeting place AND hotels right from the airport
- huge range of hotels, with some good low cost ones
- supportive organization for the meeting

and, finally, I may be wrong but it seems a good middle ground time
and space wise (and time-zone wise; everyone will be jet-lagged but
me) for both the pacific rim and the folks from the EU.

The Marin guys did get back to me and it would be cheap but I'm not
sure everyone will want to go for a bunkhouse, and the mass transit
issue to the headlands is a problem.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[tlaronde]

On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 12:48:50PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > Well, I'm in Annecy (Haute-Savoie, France) so, for sure, an european
> > located twin event will be more doable.
>
> i don't think we have enough people to split into two.

In fact, I misread initially the proposal, reading in Europe/Grenoble
for the ones unable to attend "the other side of the pond" instead of
putting the event in Europe.

Except if there is a oil rig in the middle of Atlantic (and this will
not take into account Asia...), one side or the other, there will be no
universal "best".

The best is near a highly busy hub, since a "nearer" but less used spot
can increase significantly the travel costs.

As said before, since I will unlikely be able to attend, my own living
location has not to be taken into account.
--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                      http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

> Well, I'm in Annecy (Haute-Savoie, France) so, for sure, an european
> located twin event will be more doable.

i don't think we have enough people to split into two.

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[tlaronde]

On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 01:11:16AM +0200, Mathieu Lonjaret wrote:
> While we're at "just sayin"; from what I hear on #9fans, there still
> is some interest to have that one happening in europe. So if you guys
> from the other side of the pond think you would come, I could poke
> around and see if I can get it hosted here, here being Grenoble, fr,
> somewhere on the university campus.
> Grenoble is not what I would call pretty, but the campus is nice
> enough, and well you've got the Alps nearby to enjoy. 1 hour away by
> train/bus/cab from Lyon St-Exupery Airport, or 3 hours away from Paris
> (airports).

Well, I'm in Annecy (Haute-Savoie, France) so, for sure, an european
located twin event will be more doable.

But no solution will be the best for everyone.

Is there a survey about the geo-localization of 9fans around the earth?
I guess there is a higher density in north America.

Kudos for the ones trying to organize these. I was engaged in the first
RMLL, and it is for sure work...
--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                      http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

I would most prefer to have it at a transport hub. That said, the
person who sets up the arrangements gets to call it.

I do have some calls coming back to me from local hotels.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Mathieu Lonjaret]

While we're at "just sayin"; from what I hear on #9fans, there still
is some interest to have that one happening in europe. So if you guys
from the other side of the pond think you would come, I could poke
around and see if I can get it hosted here, here being Grenoble, fr,
somewhere on the university campus.
Grenoble is not what I would call pretty, but the campus is nice
enough, and well you've got the Alps nearby to enjoy. 1 hour away by
train/bus/cab from Lyon St-Exupery Airport, or 3 hours away from Paris
(airports).

Mathieu

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 5:47 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Ramon de Vera <ramondevera@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe Seattle? ...if in October, the Picasso Exhibit is also on in the
>> SAM as well (just saying).
>
> Yeah but by then the Lusty Lady across the street from the SAM will have
> shut its doors forever (also just saying).
> Dave
>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:48 AM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> OSDI is in Vancouver in October, might be more justifiable as a
>> >> destination for academic folks if the workshop and the conference
>> >> "adjoined" -- it would at least be down to a single airfare.
>> >
>> > I got burned doing that for coreboot due to the cost of the "parent"
>> > workshop. I think IWP9 has to be cheap. Usenix meetings are not cheap.
>> > Given that this IWP9 is going to be less formal, I think we'd best
>> > keep it separate.
>> >
>> > ron
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[David Leimbach]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 977 bytes --]

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Ramon de Vera <ramondevera@gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe Seattle? ...if in October, the Picasso Exhibit is also on in the
> SAM as well (just saying).
>

Yeah but by then the Lusty Lady across the street from the SAM will have
shut its doors forever (also just saying).

Dave


>
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:48 AM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> OSDI is in Vancouver in October, might be more justifiable as a
> >> destination for academic folks if the workshop and the conference
> >> "adjoined" -- it would at least be down to a single airfare.
> >
> > I got burned doing that for coreboot due to the cost of the "parent"
> > workshop. I think IWP9 has to be cheap. Usenix meetings are not cheap.
> > Given that this IWP9 is going to be less formal, I think we'd best
> > keep it separate.
> >
> > ron
> >
> >
>
>

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Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Ramon de Vera]

Maybe Seattle? ...if in October, the Picasso Exhibit is also on in the
SAM as well (just saying).

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:48 AM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OSDI is in Vancouver in October, might be more justifiable as a
>> destination for academic folks if the workshop and the conference
>> "adjoined" -- it would at least be down to a single airfare.
>
> I got burned doing that for coreboot due to the cost of the "parent"
> workshop. I think IWP9 has to be cheap. Usenix meetings are not cheap.
> Given that this IWP9 is going to be less formal, I think we'd best
> keep it separate.
>
> ron
>
>

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen <ericvh@gmail.com> wrote:

> OSDI is in Vancouver in October, might be more justifiable as a
> destination for academic folks if the workshop and the conference
> "adjoined" -- it would at least be down to a single airfare.

I got burned doing that for coreboot due to the cost of the "parent"
workshop. I think IWP9 has to be cheap. Usenix meetings are not cheap.
Given that this IWP9 is going to be less formal, I think we'd best
keep it separate.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Paul Lalonde]

Both Vancouver and Seattle are trivially doable for me.
I'd offer our Victoria offices, but we're moving into unknown space at the end of August.

Paul

On 2010-05-07, at 6:09 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote:

> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:45 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>>>> doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?
>>> 
>>> pick any two: cheap, pretty, convenient. ☺
>> 
>> I actually like seattle that time of year anyway.
>> 
>> Is seattle a one-hop place from Europe? I am sure it is from the
>> important spots on the pacific rim ... this is an interesting
>> suggestion!
>> 
> 
> OSDI is in Vancouver in October, might be more justifiable as a
> destination for academic folks if the workshop and the conference
> "adjoined" -- it would at least be down to a single airfare.
> 
>     -eric
> 

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Eric Van Hensbergen]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:45 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>>> doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?
>>
>> pick any two: cheap, pretty, convenient. ☺
>
> I actually like seattle that time of year anyway.
>
> Is seattle a one-hop place from Europe? I am sure it is from the
> important spots on the pacific rim ... this is an interesting
> suggestion!
>

OSDI is in Vancouver in October, might be more justifiable as a
destination for academic folks if the workshop and the conference
"adjoined" -- it would at least be down to a single airfare.

     -eric

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[John Floren]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:35 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> *Weekday overnight accommodations are not available from September to June.
>>
>> this will mean peak season airfares and very tight deadline.
>
> The food looked good but this weekday overnight thing is a deal breaker.
>
> Let's try something else.
>
> ron
>
>

I think RIT would probably let us hold IWP9 on campus here in Rochester.

Advantages:
*Plenty of auditoriums and a university interested in hosting such things
*Lots of hotels in the area (Radisson right at the edge of campus)
*3 miles from the airport
*Variety of places to eat in town
*The bar right near campus has ~50 beers on tap, plenty of other great
bars a bit farther away
*Rochester is pretty cheap all around

Disadvantages:
*Weather in late fall/early winter can range from pleasant to blizzard
*Most people would have to fly in via Chicago, Atlanta, Dulles, or NYC.


The weather's not as pleasant as Athens, and it doesn't have the same
great concentration of bars and restaurants *right* on campus, but I
think RIT would be willing to host the conference. Plus, I wouldn't
have to buy plane tickets :)


John

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> which one did athens, ga fail?

i wasn't trying to be disparaging toward past venues.  i would guess
if there was any, it would be convenience of getting there/back.

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[balaji]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:08 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:03 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@labs.coraid.com> wrote:
>
>> which one did athens, ga fail?
>
> I think athens won big on cheap and pretty, and I also think we all
> felt the host (i.e. coraid) was fantastic.
>
> It was somewhat inconvenient to get to, and people had to pay the cost
> of a rental car.
>
i believe it had the best combination for a US location. conference,
accommodation, hang out places and entertainment all within
walking distance to each other, priced very reasonably.

> I would not object to going there again, however. But it's also nice
> to be in a city convenient to a different part of the world each year.
> Seattle and SF are good for our friends on the pacific rim.
>
well, it was not that far away from a very busy international airport with
convenient shuttles (except for you ron, who got in pretty late).

having seen many places in US (conference towns like Vegas, pretty
cities like SF, Boston etc), Athens imo provided the best combination
of everything for a 'non-sponsored' conference (and a terrific host).

balaji

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Christopher Nielsen]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 16:08, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:03 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@labs.coraid.com> wrote:
>
>> which one did athens, ga fail?
>
> I think athens won big on cheap and pretty, and I also think we all
> felt the host (i.e. coraid) was fantastic.
>
> It was somewhat inconvenient to get to, and people had to pay the cost
> of a rental car.
>
> I would not object to going there again, however. But it's also nice
> to be in a city convenient to a different part of the world each year.
> Seattle and SF are good for our friends on the pacific rim.
>
> So the suggestion of non-athens locations should not be taken (at
> least on my part) as springing from any negative feelings about last
> year's meeting :-)
>
> ron

If folks are interested in Los Angeles (West Hollywood), I could host
here. Our office has a really nice A/V setup and room to seat 30-40
comfortably. LA isn't attractive because everything is spread out.
However, there are reasonable and inexpensive accommodations within
walking distance. And LA also has the advantage of an easy-to-reach
from abroad airport. Of course, it's not exactly pretty here. ;-)

--
Christopher Nielsen
"They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the
blood of patriots & tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu May  6 19:09:36 EDT 2010, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:03 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@labs.coraid.com> wrote:
>
> > which one did athens, ga fail?
>
> I think athens won big on cheap and pretty, and I also think we all
> felt the host (i.e. coraid) was fantastic.
>
> It was somewhat inconvenient to get to, and people had to pay the cost
> of a rental car.
>
> I would not object to going there again, however. But it's also nice
> to be in a city convenient to a different part of the world each year.
> Seattle and SF are good for our friends on the pacific rim.
>
> So the suggestion of non-athens locations should not be taken (at
> least on my part) as springing from any negative feelings about last
> year's meeting :-)

i was being overly-literal.

i agree completely.

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:03 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@labs.coraid.com> wrote:

> which one did athens, ga fail?

I think athens won big on cheap and pretty, and I also think we all
felt the host (i.e. coraid) was fantastic.

It was somewhat inconvenient to get to, and people had to pay the cost
of a rental car.

I would not object to going there again, however. But it's also nice
to be in a city convenient to a different part of the world each year.
Seattle and SF are good for our friends on the pacific rim.

So the suggestion of non-athens locations should not be taken (at
least on my part) as springing from any negative feelings about last
year's meeting :-)

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> >> doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?
> >
> > pick any two: cheap, pretty, convenient. ☺
>
> I actually like seattle that time of year anyway.

which one did athens, ga fail?

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

On Thu, 6 May 2010 14:21:24 -0700, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>
wrote:
>> doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?
> 
> pick any two: cheap, pretty, convenient. ☺

I do not know about you but when I go to a conference I actually go FOR
the conference.  If we really wanted pretty we should hold it in
conjunction with some university that has both a good computer science
department and a fashion department, and then do a Plan9 wearable computer
fashion show!  I think that would be prettier than staring at this mug
(speaking strictly for myself ;-)

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> Is seattle a one-hop place from Europe? I am sure it is from the
> important spots on the pacific rim ... this is an interesting
> suggestion!

daily direct flights from/to: Amsterdam, Frankfurt, London, Paris and Reykjavik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>> doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?
>
> pick any two: cheap, pretty, convenient. ☺

I actually like seattle that time of year anyway.

Is seattle a one-hop place from Europe? I am sure it is from the
important spots on the pacific rim ... this is an interesting
suggestion!

I do know that there are many surprisingly cheap one-hop flights from
paris, frankfurt, etc. to san francisco.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?

pick any two: cheap, pretty, convenient. ☺

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

doesn't the weather get ugly in seattle about that time?

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[EBo]

> I would be very interested in attending IWP9, but whatever the location
> is, it will be probably out of my financial reach, combining travel and
> accomodations.
>
> I think that I'm not the only one in this case: definitively no lack of
> interest; but lack of means---and lack of vision even for some months
> ahead.

my finances are extremely tight, but I will see if I can somehow squeeze
it out regardless.  But I too will be straining my financial future
scenario visioning.

> Mail doesn't replace face to face meeting. But even for the ones not
> attending, the published papers remain!

hmmm... I wonder if some sort of video conference could be set up for
virtual attendance for those who cannot make it ;-)

> So thank to the ones having made or undertaking the task to make such
> events: we will directly or indirectly benefit from them.

dito.

  EBo --

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> Let's try something else.

how about Seattle?  i have looked into conference facilities provided
by the Port of Seattle, and they seem reasonably priced.  there are
several locations, but the least expensive will be the conference
rooms at the airport.  for 60 or less people a room like the London
conference room will be adequate (see the link below).  Port of
Seattle provides free WiFi at the airport and there's good coverage.
There are many hotels within walking distance.  The Link Light Rail
runs from SeaTac to downtown Seattle (20 hours/day, at least every
15 minutes).

if i could get an approximate count i can get a good estimate for cost
of facilities + lunch/soft drinks.

Port of Seattle conference facilities:
http://www.portseattle.org/business/conferencefacilities/airport.shtml

London conference room:
http://www.portseattle.org/about/maps/conferencelondon.shtml

Hotels:
http://tinyurl.com/27p4s3b

Sound Transit Link Light Rail schedule
http://www.soundtransit.org/x11204.xml

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:

>
>> *Weekday overnight accommodations are not available from September to June.
>
> this will mean peak season airfares and very tight deadline.

The food looked good but this weekday overnight thing is a deal breaker.

Let's try something else.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> Our overnight package includes:
>
>     * 3 meals per person
>     * 1 meeting room for every 1 night stay
>     * 1-time room set-up
>     * Overnight lodging
>
> Group size 	Weekday* 	Weekend**
> 10-25 people 	$95.00/person 	$99.00/person
> 26-75 people 	$89/person 	$93/person
> 76-150 people 	$87/person 	$91.50/person

3 meals and room? are they serving porridge?  :)

> *Weekday overnight accommodations are not available from September to June.

this will mean peak season airfares and very tight deadline.

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Wes Kussmaul]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 870 bytes --]

ron minnich wrote:
> I figure Marin Headlands ought to be cheap (dormitory housing!) but
> very attractive (right at the Golden Gate!).

Cheap indeed! (apologies for the html)

Our overnight package includes:

    * 3 meals per person
    * 1 meeting room for every 1 night stay
    * 1-time room set-up
    * Overnight lodging

Group size 	Weekday* 	Weekend**
10-25 people 	$95.00/person 	$99.00/person
26-75 people 	$89/person 	$93/person
76-150 people 	$87/person 	$91.50/person
Semi-private upgrade
<http://www.naturebridge.org/headlands/semi-private-rooms> (limited):
$52/room/night

*Weekday overnight accommodations are not available from September to June.

**Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are considered weekend days.

--
Learn about The Authenticity Economy at

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1419344994607129684&hl=en#


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Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[tlaronde]

On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 04:18:55PM +0000, ron minnich wrote:
>
> Do we have some idea of what people can afford? Another option is to
> have it right in SF, but that again starts to look pricey ($165/night
> minimum, cheap for you euro-spending guys but ...)

Hum... seems you're not listening to euro related news... Not to say
that in some months, euro will have probably disappeared ;)

I would be very interested in attending IWP9, but whatever the location
is, it will be probably out of my financial reach, combining travel and
accomodations.

I think that I'm not the only one in this case: definitively no lack of
interest; but lack of means---and lack of vision even for some months
ahead.

Mail doesn't replace face to face meeting. But even for the ones not
attending, the published papers remain!

So thank to the ones having made or undertaking the task to make such
events: we will directly or indirectly benefit from them.
--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                      http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:01 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

>
> are you gonna host?

Actually, the big question to start is: what are people willing to
pay? We have a lot of students, for example. IWP9 4 was a bargain.

I've had one experience with a workshop priced out of people's ability
to reach or pay (coreboot 2008 in denver) and don't want to make that
mistake again.

I figure Marin Headlands ought to be cheap (dormitory housing!) but
very attractive (right at the Golden Gate!). I confess I have not had
a workshop here, ever.

Do we have some idea of what people can afford? Another option is to
have it right in SF, but that again starts to look pricey ($165/night
minimum, cheap for you euro-spending guys but ...)

Send me a note off-list with what you think is affordable. I'm getting
close to being willing to host.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu May  6 12:01:32 EDT 2010, rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> Me too. I thought 4 was great.
>
> I keep wanting to have a workshop here:
> http://www.naturebridge.org/headlands/conference-facilities
>
> It's stunning and SF is right over the bridge. This time around we
> could emphasize hacking more than talks, and let people show us what
> they've got. Would love to see the disconnected 9p stuff in action,
> for example.

are you gonna host?

- erik

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[ron minnich]

Me too. I thought 4 was great.

I keep wanting to have a workshop here:
http://www.naturebridge.org/headlands/conference-facilities

It's stunning and SF is right over the bridge. This time around we
could emphasize hacking more than talks, and let people show us what
they've got. Would love to see the disconnected 9p stuff in action,
for example.

ron

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Jeff Sickel]

On May 6, 2010, at 9:55 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:

> speaking of which, is there any interest in iwp9 5e?

yes

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[erik quanstrom]

On Tue May  4 16:00:50 EDT 2010, jonas.amoson@home.se wrote:
> I am thinking of the durability of the URL:s for the
> various IWP9 articles. if www.iwp9.org will be reused
> for further hosting, a subdirectory (as in 'papers/4e/')
> might be a good idea.I suppose that some domain bloat
> is hard to avoid, when things are so decentralised ;-)

i've made everything from iwp9 4e available at
http://4e.iwp9.org.  none of the relative urls have
changed; they would be the preferred links.

no firm decision yet on if old links will need to be
broken to allow iwp9.org to be the "current" iwp9.

speaking of which, is there any interest in iwp9 5e?

- erik

[9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

[Jonas Amoson]

I am thinking of the durability of the URL:s for the
various IWP9 articles. if www.iwp9.org will be reused
for further hosting, a subdirectory (as in 'papers/4e/')
might be a good idea.I suppose that some domain bloat
is hard to avoid, when things are so decentralised ;-)

/jonas

> Here is a second cut on the bibliographies...