[9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[Jay F. Shachter]

Esteemed Colleagues:

I have successfully re-installed 9front, and it boots.  In a few
paragraphs, I will speculate why the previous installations (with only
one exception), did not complete.

Prior to the re-installation, I destroyed the 5-Gigabyte slice of disk
onto which 9front had been previously installed, and recreated it with
a size of 20 Gigabytes.  I also had to zero out the beginning of the
slice, because until I did that, the 9front installation program
skipped the repartitioning phase.

I am now able to boot into a working 9front system, except for some
USB weirdness that I shall describe in a moment.  So it seems that the
first time I installed 9front, the 5-Gigabyte slice of disk was not
large enough to contain it (which surprises me), but the installation
program did not detect, and report, that the slice of disk was not
large enough to contain the system that was being installed onto it
(which also surprises me).

Now, as for why so many of my other installation attempts failed, I
have a theory.  I have not thoroughly investigated whether the theory
is true, because life is too short to thoroughly investigate
everything in the world that puzzles you, but maybe it will interest
you.  I have a USB keyboard, which itself has 2 USB ports on it.  I
normally stick my USB mouse into one of those ports, and then I stick
the keyboard into whatever computer I am currently working with.  I
think the successful installation, among all the unsuccessful attempts,
took place when my USB keyboard was not stuck in to the computer onto
which I was install 9front, but, rather, into another computer, where
I was scrolling thru https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4184409/how-to-install-9front-a-plan-9-fork.
When I attempted to install 9front when the USB keyboard was not
connected to the computer, then the installation worked.  I know this
explanation sounds preposterous, but it is the only theory, as of this
moment, that I have.

Now for some additional, thoroughly perplexing, complexity.  I have
two operating systems on my computer that can generate GRUB menus: a
Linux system, and a Solaris system.  The Linux GRUB menu is installed
onto (if I may use the Linux terminology) /dev/sda and /dev/sda10; the
Solaris GRUB menu is installed onto /dev/sda13.  Each GRUB menu has a
menuitem that invokes the other one.  Thus:

     menuitem 'Solaris GRUB Menu' {
        set root=(hd0,13)
        chainloader +1
     }

and

     menuitem 'Linux GRUB Menu' {
        set root=(hd0,10)
        chainloader +1
     }

This is necessary to be able to access all the operating systems on
the computer, because the Linux GRUB menu cannot boot Solaris (or it
can but I haven't figured out how), and the Solaris GRUB menu cannot
boot OpenBSD (Solaris has a bad version of relocator.mod, the bug was
reported and fixed years ago, but Oracle has never upgraded its GRUB).

Now for the USB weirdness.  Each of these two GRUB menus has been
furnished with the following menuitem:

     menuitem '9front' {
        set root=(hd0,14)
        chainloader +1
     }

When I boot 9front from the Linux menu, I cannot use the USB
keyboard.  I can use the USB mouse only if I take it out of the
keyboard port and stick it in directly to the computer.  But when I
boot 9front from the Solaris menu, I can use both the USB keyboard,
and the USB mouse when it is connected to the USB keyboard.  This is
completely bewildering.  Apparently something is happening in the
Solaris GRUB menu that renders the USB keyboard visible to the 9front
system.  I have no idea what.  If anyone reading this has any notion
why 9front is unable to see the USB keyboard when it is booted one
way, but is able to see the USB keyboard when it is booted another
way, I would welcome hearing it.

	Jay F. Shachter
	6424 North Whipple Street
	Chicago IL  60645-4111
		(1-773)7613784   landline
		(1-410)9964737   GoogleVoice
                http://m5.chicago.il.us
		jay@m5.chicago.il.us

	"But when she traced the killer's IP address ... it was in the 192.168/16 block!"

RE: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[Dave Woodman]

Hi,

Progress indeed!

I would guess that the hub in the keyboard might be the root of this evil.

Dave.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jay F. Shachter <jay@m5.chicago.il.us> 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2023 9:19 PM
To: 9front@9front.org
Subject: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness


Esteemed Colleagues:

I have successfully re-installed 9front, and it boots.  In a few paragraphs,
I will speculate why the previous installations (with only one exception),
did not complete.

Prior to the re-installation, I destroyed the 5-Gigabyte slice of disk onto
which 9front had been previously installed, and recreated it with a size of
20 Gigabytes.  I also had to zero out the beginning of the slice, because
until I did that, the 9front installation program skipped the repartitioning
phase.

I am now able to boot into a working 9front system, except for some USB
weirdness that I shall describe in a moment.  So it seems that the first
time I installed 9front, the 5-Gigabyte slice of disk was not large enough
to contain it (which surprises me), but the installation program did not
detect, and report, that the slice of disk was not large enough to contain
the system that was being installed onto it (which also surprises me).

Now, as for why so many of my other installation attempts failed, I have a
theory.  I have not thoroughly investigated whether the theory is true,
because life is too short to thoroughly investigate everything in the world
that puzzles you, but maybe it will interest you.  I have a USB keyboard,
which itself has 2 USB ports on it.  I normally stick my USB mouse into one
of those ports, and then I stick the keyboard into whatever computer I am
currently working with.  I think the successful installation, among all the
unsuccessful attempts, took place when my USB keyboard was not stuck in to
the computer onto which I was install 9front, but, rather, into another
computer, where I was scrolling thru
https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4184409/how-to-install-9front-a-plan-9-fork.
When I attempted to install 9front when the USB keyboard was not connected
to the computer, then the installation worked.  I know this explanation
sounds preposterous, but it is the only theory, as of this moment, that I
have.

Now for some additional, thoroughly perplexing, complexity.  I have two
operating systems on my computer that can generate GRUB menus: a Linux
system, and a Solaris system.  The Linux GRUB menu is installed onto (if I
may use the Linux terminology) /dev/sda and /dev/sda10; the Solaris GRUB
menu is installed onto /dev/sda13.  Each GRUB menu has a menuitem that
invokes the other one.  Thus:

     menuitem 'Solaris GRUB Menu' {
        set root=(hd0,13)
        chainloader +1
     }

and

     menuitem 'Linux GRUB Menu' {
        set root=(hd0,10)
        chainloader +1
     }

This is necessary to be able to access all the operating systems on the
computer, because the Linux GRUB menu cannot boot Solaris (or it can but I
haven't figured out how), and the Solaris GRUB menu cannot boot OpenBSD
(Solaris has a bad version of relocator.mod, the bug was reported and fixed
years ago, but Oracle has never upgraded its GRUB).

Now for the USB weirdness.  Each of these two GRUB menus has been furnished
with the following menuitem:

     menuitem '9front' {
        set root=(hd0,14)
        chainloader +1
     }

When I boot 9front from the Linux menu, I cannot use the USB keyboard.  I
can use the USB mouse only if I take it out of the keyboard port and stick
it in directly to the computer.  But when I boot 9front from the Solaris
menu, I can use both the USB keyboard, and the USB mouse when it is
connected to the USB keyboard.  This is completely bewildering.  Apparently
something is happening in the Solaris GRUB menu that renders the USB
keyboard visible to the 9front system.  I have no idea what.  If anyone
reading this has any notion why 9front is unable to see the USB keyboard
when it is booted one way, but is able to see the USB keyboard when it is
booted another way, I would welcome hearing it.

	Jay F. Shachter
	6424 North Whipple Street
	Chicago IL  60645-4111
		(1-773)7613784   landline
		(1-410)9964737   GoogleVoice
                http://m5.chicago.il.us
		jay@m5.chicago.il.us

	"But when she traced the killer's IP address ... it was in the
192.168/16 block!"

Re: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[qwx]

You don't need to speculate about anything.  You have been given an
explanation for both of your problems if only you cared to read it.
There's even a paper about this, "A cached worm filesystem".  Anyway
I believe Dave is right about the hub as well.

qwx

Re: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[Jay F. Shachter]

Centuries ago, Nostradamus predicted that qwx@sciops.net would write on Fri Jul 21 16:01:55 2023:

> 
> You don't need to speculate about anything.  You have been given an
> explanation for both of your problems if only you cared to read it.
> There's even a paper about this, "A cached worm filesystem".  Anyway
> I believe Dave is right about the hub as well.
> 
> qwx
> 

Please forgive me; I was, indeed, told -- by you, among others -- to
increase the size of the 9front slice of disk to 20G, which is why I
did so.  I did not see any explanation for why the USB keyboard
sometimes works and sometimes does not work, and I don't see how I
could have, because that phenomenon had not been reported, before
today.  If an explanation for the USB weirdness was posted to this
mailing list, I failed to see it.  Maybe someone will do me the
kindness of reposting it.

                        Jay F. Shachter
                        6424 North Whipple Street
                        Chicago IL  60645-4111
                                (1-773)7613784   landline
                                (1-410)9964737   GoogleVoice
                                jay@m5.chicago.il.us
                                http://m5.chicago.il.us

                        "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur"

Re: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[Stuart Morrow]

>lunduke talking about 9front

Brace yourselves,
https://inbox.vuxu.org/9front/547BCB9A.8090301@ix.netcom.com/ posters
are coming

Re: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[hiro]

i at least commend you for clear speech and elaborate reports here.

On 7/21/23, Jay F. Shachter <jay@m5.chicago.il.us> wrote:
>
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus predicted that qwx@sciops.net would write on Fri
> Jul 21 16:01:55 2023:
>
>>
>> You don't need to speculate about anything.  You have been given an
>> explanation for both of your problems if only you cared to read it.
>> There's even a paper about this, "A cached worm filesystem".  Anyway
>> I believe Dave is right about the hub as well.
>>
>> qwx
>>
>
> Please forgive me; I was, indeed, told -- by you, among others -- to
> increase the size of the 9front slice of disk to 20G, which is why I
> did so.  I did not see any explanation for why the USB keyboard
> sometimes works and sometimes does not work, and I don't see how I
> could have, because that phenomenon had not been reported, before
> today.  If an explanation for the USB weirdness was posted to this
> mailing list, I failed to see it.  Maybe someone will do me the
> kindness of reposting it.
>
>                         Jay F. Shachter
>                         6424 North Whipple Street
>                         Chicago IL  60645-4111
>                                 (1-773)7613784   landline
>                                 (1-410)9964737   GoogleVoice
>                                 jay@m5.chicago.il.us
>                                 http://m5.chicago.il.us
>
>                         "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur"
>
>

RE: [9front] 9front Successfully Installed; USB Weirdness

[william]

Quoth Dave Woodman <dave@naffnet.org.uk>:
> Linux

Nope. Just go hard. Get rid of Linux and Solaris. Oh and get rid of the keyboard and the mouse. Just because linux 
can read the hardware and use it doesn't mean its compatible with 9front. Simple and cheap seems to work the best. 
Why waste time with another OS when quality time can be spent playing with 9front?