From: Alain Frisch <alain@frisch.fr>
To: Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>
Cc: Aleksey Nogin <nogin@metaprl.org>, caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Some comments on recent discussions
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:11:55 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4EEB51AB.10200@frisch.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1324041254.7750.99.camel@samsung>
On 12/16/2011 02:14 PM, Gerd Stolpmann wrote:
> Simple answer: There is a bootstrap problem: The existing Ocaml users
> are almost Unix-only. They do not care about Windows. In order to
> establish "Windows-typical problem solving" you need definitely more
> Windows users, but they will only come if you have a Windows-typical way
> of distribution.
>
> My thinking is that you can break this circle only if you go forward and
> try to make as many Unix-style solutions available under Windows as
> possible.
Honestly, I think this is the wrong approach. The Windows-style of
packaging (i.e. lack of packaging system) is very simple to implement:
just ship zip files or Windows installers. It's less comfortable than
powerful package systems as we're used to in the Unix world, but it is
not an issue for Windows users.
> By the way, your plan includes Unix emulation, too, under point 3. It's
> only more hidden.
Yes, but Unix emulation exists and works not too badly. You can use
Cygwin, or msys, etc. I can see two reasons for reimplementing
Unix-like tools, and none of them are good:
- We want to control everything in order to have better options for
creating nice packages for OCaml related stuff. This is a bad reason,
because Windows users except binary package anyway, so the external
tools needed during the build process don't have to be redistributed.
The only external tools which are currently mandatory to use ocaml
are an assembler and a linker, and some native libraries. Not
a Unix shell, a "find" or a "ls" command.
- Existing solutions are not build on strong technical foundations,
and one thinks one can do better. Ok, but this has nothing to do
with OCaml; this will necessarily represent a huge amount of
work; and I don't see why people who don't really care about Windows
would do a better job in a few months than people who've spent years
of work on cygwin/msys/etc.
Can you explain what's wrong with my approach:
* OCaml users have access to binary packages which can be trivially
installed (zip files or installers) and are self-contained.
* People in charge of creating these packages use existing Unix-like
environment (cygwin/msys/...); and progressively, they
publish "best practices" for the whole community in order to
simplify their job (e.g. try to rely on ocamlbuild or omake instead
of Makefiles; avoid relying on symbolic links; etc).
Alain
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-12-16 14:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 80+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-12-06 15:24 Jonathan Protzenko
2011-12-06 15:31 ` Joel Reymont
2011-12-06 23:03 ` Martin Jambon
2011-12-06 16:01 ` Mihamina Rakotomandimby
2011-12-06 16:03 ` Benedikt Meurer
2011-12-06 16:56 ` Ashish Agarwal
2011-12-06 17:12 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-06 17:33 ` Alex Rubinsteyn
2011-12-06 17:53 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-07 0:18 ` Paolo Donadeo
2011-12-07 1:00 ` oliver
2011-12-07 6:33 ` Mihamina Rakotomandimby
2011-12-07 1:48 ` Ashish Agarwal
2011-12-07 9:53 ` Goswin von Brederlow
2011-12-07 10:33 ` Pierre-Alexandre Voye
2011-12-07 11:18 ` Gabriel Scherer
2011-12-07 13:15 ` David MENTRE
2011-12-07 13:48 ` Alan Schmitt
2011-12-07 14:56 ` Ashish Agarwal
2011-12-07 15:52 ` oliver
2011-12-10 14:58 ` Xavier Leroy
2011-12-08 7:59 ` rixed
2011-12-08 10:37 ` oliver
2011-12-08 13:15 ` [Caml-list] Wanted book (Re: Some comments on recent discussions) Mihamina Rakotomandimby
2011-12-09 21:22 ` oliver
2011-12-09 7:13 ` [Caml-list] Some comments on recent discussions Martin Jambon
2011-12-10 20:32 ` Andrei Formiga
2011-12-10 21:01 ` Edgar Friendly
2011-12-10 21:12 ` rixed
2011-12-10 21:24 ` Edgar Friendly
2011-12-10 21:49 ` rixed
2011-12-10 22:45 ` Edgar Friendly
2011-12-10 23:58 ` Hans Ole Rafaelsen
2011-12-11 10:25 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-11 10:06 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-13 17:41 ` oliver
2011-12-13 5:54 ` Martin DeMello
2011-12-13 7:15 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-13 8:21 ` Martin DeMello
2011-12-13 8:51 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-13 9:15 ` Gaius Hammond
2011-12-13 14:08 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-14 5:28 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-13 9:51 ` Martin DeMello
2011-12-13 9:53 ` Adrien
2011-12-13 20:52 ` Jon Harrop
2011-12-14 6:03 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-14 9:34 ` Jonathan Protzenko
2011-12-14 10:24 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-14 13:37 ` Adrien
2011-12-14 14:24 ` Gabriel Scherer
2011-12-14 15:27 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-14 15:46 ` Gaius Hammond
2011-12-14 15:49 ` Adrien
2011-12-14 16:42 ` Fabrice Le Fessant
2011-12-14 17:04 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-15 21:38 ` Adrien
2011-12-14 16:55 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-14 21:35 ` Benedikt Meurer
2011-12-15 11:14 ` Adrien
2011-12-14 12:52 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-14 13:25 ` Jonathan Protzenko
2011-12-14 17:27 ` Aleksey Nogin
2011-12-14 17:36 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-14 19:41 ` David Allsopp
2011-12-15 10:29 ` Adrien
2011-12-15 17:41 ` Martin DeMello
2011-12-15 20:47 ` Adrien
2011-12-15 21:20 ` Martin DeMello
2011-12-15 11:25 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-16 12:39 ` Alain Frisch
2011-12-16 12:44 ` Jonathan Protzenko
2011-12-16 13:14 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-16 14:11 ` Alain Frisch [this message]
2011-12-16 14:50 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2011-12-16 13:58 ` Stéphane Glondu
2011-12-16 17:29 ` Edgar Friendly
2011-12-14 18:41 ` Dmitry Grebeniuk
2011-12-14 23:54 ` Martin DeMello
2011-12-15 10:03 ` Adrien
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