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* Regular embedding
@ 1998-05-25 21:00 Ockham's stubble
  1998-05-26 18:03 ` Michael Barr
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ockham's stubble @ 1998-05-25 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: categories

Would the following (aside from the first) help to prepare a more
digestible proof of Barr's full regular embedding theorem?

1) Say that an object U of a (but not just any) category E is open if U
   is a finitely presentable object of the opposite of E (i.e., if it
   satisfies the analogue of the filter convergence characterization
   of open sets). An object P of E is strict if it is the projective
   limit of a diagram of opens such that each limit projection is an
   effective epimorphism; P is called saturated if for every U -->> V
   of opens, each P -->> V lifts to some P -->> U; finally, P is called
   weakly projective if it is projective with respect to effective
   epimorphisms of opens. Every strict, saturated object is  weakly
   projective.   
2) Given P in Pro(C), where C is a regular category, let P' denote the
   fibred product of all X -->> P which are opens of Pro(C)/P, and P*
   the projective limit of: P <<-- P' <<-- P'' <<-- P''' ...; one
   shows that the projection P* --> P is an effective epimoprhism, that 
   P* is a strict, saturated object of Pro(C)/P, and therefore that P*
   is a weakly projective object of Pro(C). Theorem 14 of Barr's '86
   JPAA paper (i.e., step three in his message of 21 May) applies.
3) The construction is (to my knowledge) due to Joyal (c. 1972, or
   earlier). Objects of the form X*, where X is an object of C, are 
   principal prime models, a notion Makkai (Full continuous embeddings
   of toposes, Trans AMS, 1982) distilled from Barr's original proof
   (Joyal called them absolutely flasque). 
cheers, 
-b
PS:Without the terminology, that Pro(C) (=~ Lex(C,Set)^op) is regular 
   if C is is suggested in SGA4, Expose I, 8.9 (especially cf. exercise
   8.9.9(b)). 





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: Regular embedding
  1998-05-25 21:00 Regular embedding Ockham's stubble
@ 1998-05-26 18:03 ` Michael Barr
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Barr @ 1998-05-26 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ockham's stubble; +Cc: categories

Well, I am not trying to be snide, but for me, my argument is more
understandable.  But if you prefer to see it in the way you put it, I have
no objection.  A couple more comments.

In 1986 (or, really, 1984), I did not really understand that this argument
was *really* the same argument, just dressed up nicer, using functors
instead of diagrams.  

In 1970, I was fresh from homological algebra.  The construction struck me
(and still does) as reminiscent of the argument you use in showing that if
you have the beginnings of a map from a projective complex to an acyclic
one, you can continue it one more step.  The main difference was that this
was a well-founded poset instead of an inter-indexed chain.  And if anyone
ever wondered why I called these A diagrams and P diagrams, it had nothing
to do with A&P and everything to do with acyclic and projective.  Thus the
embedding theorem is, like many other things I have done, a form of
acyclic models.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: Regular embedding
@ 1998-05-22 17:31 Donovan Van Osdol
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Donovan Van Osdol @ 1998-05-22 17:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rrosebrugh

Ross Street asks Michael Barr if he knows "of a diagram lemma
which could be proved significantly quicker using the embedding 
theorem than by the generalized-element/relations technology".
Well, I don't exactly, but one of the earliest uses of Barr's
embeddings of regular categories was in my American Journal of
Mathematics paper on Simplicial Homotopy in an Exact Category 
(1977, vol 99, pp 1193-1204). I wanted to prove the homotopy 
exact sequence of a Kan fibration of sheaves of simplicial sets
and Barr's results were exactly what I needed. All this has 
since been improved by using closed model structures and a less
naive definition of fibration, but the "embedding/technology" 
Ross mentions was all we had available--in sufficient generality
to cover my situation--at the time.
Don Van Osdol




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: Regular embedding
  1998-05-22  4:05 Ross Street
@ 1998-05-22 15:25 ` Michael Barr
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Barr @ 1998-05-22 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ross Street; +Cc: categories

I certainly welcome Ross' clarification of his problem.  One possibility
would be to give the proof except for the existence of sufficient regular
functors and either refer the students to the paper or (better) write it
out carefully and distribute it.  One thing I have given only a little
thought to is whether it can be done using a maximal principle argument.
The point is that it is not a question of extending a map to a larger and
larger subobject, but of building larger and larger objects and not as
subobjects of something already given.  This makes it different from the
proof, say, that divisible abelian groups are injective (from which the
existence of sufficient injectives in any module category follows easily).
I think a maximal principle argument goes down a lot more easily than one
based overtly on ordinals or transfinite induction.

Ross, it sounds like a beautiful course and if you have notes, I would
like to see them. 

Michael




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: Regular embedding
@ 1998-05-22  4:05 Ross Street
  1998-05-22 15:25 ` Michael Barr
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ross Street @ 1998-05-22  4:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: categories

The proof Michael Barr had in mind at the time of writing his 1986 JPAA
paper on representations of categories, and has now clarified, is truly
beautiful.  I may have misrepresented what the problem was with presenting
the transfinite induction part of the proof in my course.  It is a question
of time rather than difficulty.  I am not known amongst my colleagues as
one who shrinks from teaching or avoiding hard proofs.  The point is that I
have a course consisting of 24 lectures to a group including a (bright) 4th
year student (who had hardly heard of categories before the course), a
graduate students in number theory, physics and computer science, my own 5
PhD students, and a professional category theorist.  I am trying to keep it
interesting for all. The students (even the ones who have done a formal
set-theory course) have not really used ordinals; so I would need to
sacrifice some category theory to provide that background. I am still
undecided about this; perhaps, the transfinite induction and the embedding
theorem can be an appendix to the course.

Perhaps the most novel aspect of the course, considering my 2-cell
background, is that I have given 18 lectures so far without introducing
natural transformations. I'm about to talk about adjunctions without them
too.

I must admit that the course content has evolved on the run. But looking
back, I think it has some unity of purpose.  I headed straight for the
definition of regular category as having a terminal object, pullbacks,
strong epi - monic factorizations, and stability of strong epis under
pulling back along arbitrary arrows.  We developed the method of
generalised elements and constructed the Poset-enriched category of
relations in a regular category.  We proved relations with right adjoints
are graphs of arrows.  We proved strong epis are regular. Equivalence
relations and (Barr-)exact categories were examined.

[One of my (intended?) questions to Michael Barr was whether he knew of a
diagram lemma which could be proved significantly quicker using the
embedding theorem than by the generalised-element/relations technology.]

I proved in detail that an exact additive category is abelian (as defined
in Freyd's book "Abelian Categories" - beginning of Chapter 2). Not only is
that a deep theorem of category theory (in my opinion - despite not needing
a transfinite argument) but it is a microcosm of categorical ideas that
have proved useful in other contexts.  We proved the Five Lemma, Snake
Lemma using relations in the abelian category.

So far I have set 15 exercises: some quite challenging. One was to prove
Cat is not regular (I gave a bit of a hint).

Now I am discussing 2-sided discrete fibrations (just for categories) in
depth.  These are being advertised as the "relations" of category theory.
In fact, this means we do have presheaf categories disguised as  DFib(A,1);
so some natural transformations are there hiding there.

I have this weekend to decide where we go next!

But I think there is enough meat in all this to deal with sceptical colleagues.

When it comes to a game of "my subject's harder than yours, nya, nya", I
would also argue that the concepts category theory has to offer are just as
hard to really master as difficult theorems.  This is why many
mathematicians calculate hard to do what we can do with our concepts.

Regards,
Ross





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Regular embedding
@ 1998-05-21 12:44 Michael Barr
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Barr @ 1998-05-21 12:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Categories list

A month or so ago, I got a note from Ross Street asking about my 1986
JPAA paper on representations of categories.  The main point of that
paper was to give a new, relatively simple proof of the full embedding
theorem for regular categories.  Unfortunately, I tried to get too
general and got tangled in the variance, so that the argument could not
be followed.  Follows is my final note to Ross.  The argument is really
quite simple and can be described as follows:

1. Show that when @C (read script C) is regular, so is Lex(@C,Set)\op.
 (Lex=FL is the finite limit preserving functors.  This result is really
the only new thing in the paper.)

2. Adapt Grothendieck's transfinite induction proof of the existence of
injectives in an AB5 abelian category to show that Lex(@C,Set)\op has
enough @C-projectives = regular functors.

3. Adapt Mitchell's proof of the abelian category full embedding theorem
to show that by taking a sufficiently large full subcategory @P in
Lex(@C,Set) consisting of regular functors, then the evaluation functor
@C --> Func(@P\op,Set) is full and faithful.

That's all there is to it.  I plan to post on triples in the next few
days a revised version of the paper (it was, fortunately, one of the
very first that was typed on a computer, so this is not too onerous).  I
will call it embedding.rev.

Ross further raised the question as to whether a transfinite induction
was too sophisticated for the classroom.  I don't know exactly what
level his course was, but I will say that if we never do a hard theorem,
then the students will come away with the idea that there is no depth to
category theory, an impression his colleagues will be only too happy to
affirm.  This argument of Grothendieck's is, after all, the first
example that there could be deep results in categories.

Michael

=====================================================================

Dear Ross:

I did not really try to understand my paper.  I suspect it is a matter
of trying to be too abstract and getting tangled in my own feet.  At any
rate, here is how I would do it for a class.  First, since you didn't
ask, I assume that you are happy with the fact that given a small
category @C (think of that as script C; BTW, I never noticed how
dreadful JPAA's scripts were), the category @L = Lex(@C,Set)\op has the
property that given any functor F, there is a regular epi P -->> F such
that P is projective with respect to regular epis in @C.  Now consider a
small full subcategory @P built out of choosing @C projective covers for
each representable and a @C-projective cover for the kernel pair of each
of the @C-projective covers of representables.  Thus, for each object C,
there is a parallel pair Q ===> P in @P, whose coequalizer in @L is C.
Notice that Hom_{@L}(P,C) = PC, using Yoneda and taking the variance
into account.

There is an obvious functor F: @C --> Fun(@P\op,Set) that takes C to
the functor P |--> Hom(P,C) = PC.  This functor is clearly
faithful, preserves finite limits and regular epis.  The only question
is the fullness.  So suppose a: FC --> FB is a natural transformation.
What naturality means is that for any d: Q --> P in @P, the square
                         Hom(d,C)
               Hom(P,C) ----------> Hom(Q,C)
                  |                    |
                  |                    |
               aP |                    | aQ
                  |                    |
                  |                    |
                  v                    v
               Hom(P,B) ----------> Hom(Q,B)
                         Hom(d,B)
 commutes.  Applied to an f: P --> C, this means that aQ(d.f) = d.aP(f).
Apply this in the case that f is a coequalizer in @L to a parallel pair
d,e : Q ===> P in @P.  It says that
     aP(f).d = aQ(f.d) = aQ(f.e) = aQ(f).e
 and that means that there is a unique b: C --> B such that aP(f) = b.f.
You finish the argument by observing that for any object R of @P and any
c: R --> C, there is a lifting to an arrow g: R --> P and then aR(c) =
aR(f.g) = aP(f).g = b.f.g = b.c.






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

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1998-05-25 21:00 Regular embedding Ockham's stubble
1998-05-26 18:03 ` Michael Barr
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1998-05-22 17:31 Donovan Van Osdol
1998-05-22  4:05 Ross Street
1998-05-22 15:25 ` Michael Barr
1998-05-21 12:44 Michael Barr

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