vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Hannu Koivisto]

Greetings,

Is anyone working on this?  I'd interested because we just moved to
an M$ Exchange system and now people want to use its calendar stuff
to schedule meetings etc.  Exchange forwards all my mail to a Unix
system where I use Gnus to read it (and I use nnimap for few public
folders, otherwise I wouldn't have to touch the Exchange server)
but it would be nice to handle calendar stuff with Gnus+Emacs as
well so that I wouldn't have to run vmware+Outlook (unless
Helixgnome's Evolution alredy works for this purpose; I haven't
checked yet) just for that purpose.

-- 
Hannu

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Kevin A. Burton]

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Hash: SHA1

Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> writes:

> Greetings,
> 
> Is anyone working on this?  I'd interested because we just moved to
> an M$ Exchange system and now people want to use its calendar stuff
> to schedule meetings etc.  Exchange forwards all my mail to a Unix
> system where I use Gnus to read it (and I use nnimap for few public
> folders, otherwise I wouldn't have to touch the Exchange server)
> but it would be nice to handle calendar stuff with Gnus+Emacs as
> well so that I wouldn't have to run vmware+Outlook (unless
> Helixgnome's Evolution alredy works for this purpose; I haven't
> checked yet) just for that purpose.

I thought about this a while back... .......  I don't think I want Calendar
stuff within Emacs.  Startup up Gnome Calendar... how would you have such a nice
interface within Emacs??? You can't :(...  it wouldn't be nice :(

The current Gnome Calendar support iCalendar streams and this is what I
currently use.  I believe that some people have started doing this with
desktop-calendar.el (check your Emacs Lisp List) but it is buggy (IMO) and looks
like it isn't being developed anymore.

It would still be nice to have all the Emacs lisp magic.............. 

Kevin

- -- 
Kevin A. Burton ( burton@apache.org, burton@openprivacy.org, burtonator@acm.org )
        Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 

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Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Jaap-Henk Hoepman]

I really would love this too (not necessarily within gnus though). Problem is
that IMAP appears not to be enough to access the calender and contact items
stored on the Exchange server. You can get the subjects, but not the date and
time of the appointment. Apparantly MAPI is needed to access these other
details. 

Anybody any ideas?

Jaap-Henk

On 02 Jan 2001 17:24:54 +0200 Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> writes:
> Greetings,
> 
> Is anyone working on this?  I'd interested because we just moved to
> an M$ Exchange system and now people want to use its calendar stuff
> to schedule meetings etc.  Exchange forwards all my mail to a Unix
> system where I use Gnus to read it (and I use nnimap for few public
> folders, otherwise I wouldn't have to touch the Exchange server)
> but it would be nice to handle calendar stuff with Gnus+Emacs as
> well so that I wouldn't have to run vmware+Outlook (unless
> Helixgnome's Evolution alredy works for this purpose; I haven't
> checked yet) just for that purpose.
> 
> -- 
> Hannu
> 

-- 
Jaap-Henk Hoepman             | Come sail your ships around me
Dept. of Computer Science     | And burn your bridges down
University of Twente          |       Nick Cave - "Ship Song"
Email: hoepman@cs.utwente.nl === WWW: www.cs.utwente.nl/~hoepman
Phone: +31 53 4893795 === Secr: +31 53 4893770 === Fax: +31 53 4894590
PGP ID: 0xF52E26DD  Fingerprint: 1AED DDEB C7F1 DBB3  0556 4732 4217 ABEF

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Hannu Koivisto]

Jaap-Henk Hoepman <hoepman@cs.utwente.nl> writes:

[FWIW, since no one seems to be working on this, I'm going to at
least start reading iCalendar RFCs.]

[I don't want copies of list mail.  Let's see if Mail-Followup-To
will help.]

| I really would love this too (not necessarily within gnus though). Problem is

This "within <xyz>" issue is something I need to get back to.
First those RFCs, though, so that I can see what kind of
functionality will be involved.  Gnus will probably be just one way
to get requests from mails, send replies etc. with some keybinding
sugar for this in some nnml-derived group or something.

| that IMAP appears not to be enough to access the calender and contact items

First of all, for my purpose the Exchange server needs not be
involved at all.  That is, a system that lets me to keep the
calendar data on Emacs-based software is enough --- I don't need to
(or rather: I don't want to) access it from Exchange too.  Of
course, sharing calendar stuff with Exchange might be a cool
addition for some users, but it's something that probably someone
else needs to take a look at, though I don't think there's much to
look at --- at least...

| stored on the Exchange server. You can get the subjects, but not the date and
| time of the appointment. Apparantly MAPI is needed to access these other

...I can get those (well, I don't know about contact items).

Oh, I haven't tested and I don't really care about anything older
than Exchange 2000 (I recall older Exchanges work in a different
way and I think MAPI or some even less documented, hopeless
thingamajig was indeed involved).  Perhaps you think of some older
Exchange?

-- 
Hannu

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 03 Jan 2001, Jaap-Henk Hoepman wrote:

> I really would love this too (not necessarily within gnus
> though). Problem is that IMAP appears not to be enough to access the
> calender and contact items stored on the Exchange server. You can
> get the subjects, but not the date and time of the
> appointment. Apparantly MAPI is needed to access these other
> details.

If I were to implement such stuff, I'd put the additional information
into some hidden message header fields.  So that's probably precisely
what Microsoft did not do.  But I think it doesn't hurt to do `C-u g'
on such a message just to be sure.

kai
-- 
~/.signature

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[William M. Perry]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> On 03 Jan 2001, Jaap-Henk Hoepman wrote:
> 
> > I really would love this too (not necessarily within gnus
> > though). Problem is that IMAP appears not to be enough to access the
> > calender and contact items stored on the Exchange server. You can
> > get the subjects, but not the date and time of the
> > appointment. Apparantly MAPI is needed to access these other
> > details.
> 
> If I were to implement such stuff, I'd put the additional information
> into some hidden message header fields.  So that's probably precisely
> what Microsoft did not do.  But I think it doesn't hurt to do `C-u g' on
> such a message just to be sure.

I can forward a bunch of meeting requests I have sitting in my incoming
mail if anybody wants.  There does not seem to be anything in the headers
that is interesting though.  Just the standard set.  The only X- headers
are from gnus.

The only thing that is similar is the message always starts with:


----> cut here <----
When: Friday, December 29, 2000 1:30 PM-3:00 PM (GMT-08:00) Pacific Time
(US & Canada); Tijuana.
Where: @The Roaster

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
----> cut here <----

Maybe a washing function could be used for these (probably old-style
messages).  I know we are not running exchange 2000.

-bp

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Hannu Koivisto]

wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:

| Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
| 
| > On 03 Jan 2001, Jaap-Henk Hoepman wrote:
| > 
| > > I really would love this too (not necessarily within gnus
| > > though). Problem is that IMAP appears not to be enough to access the
| > > calender and contact items stored on the Exchange server. You can
| > > get the subjects, but not the date and time of the
| > > appointment. Apparantly MAPI is needed to access these other
| > > details.
| > 
| > If I were to implement such stuff, I'd put the additional information
| > into some hidden message header fields.  So that's probably precisely

Uh, you would need quite a lot of header data.  Anyways, in
Microsoft's case the relevant information is fortunately not in the
header fields, it's in the body...

| > what Microsoft did not do.  But I think it doesn't hurt to do `C-u g' on
| > such a message just to be sure.

...but `C-u g' is a good thing to do anyway, because Gnus doesn't
display the relevant MIME part by default.

| The only thing that is similar is the message always starts with:

Yeah, but that's just a mostly useless informal version of the
iCalendar REQUEST, which is in the next MIME part...

| ----> cut here <----
| When: Friday, December 29, 2000 1:30 PM-3:00 PM (GMT-08:00) Pacific Time
| (US & Canada); Tijuana.
| Where: @The Roaster
| 
| *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
| ----> cut here <----
| 
| Maybe a washing function could be used for these (probably old-style
| messages).  I know we are not running exchange 2000.

...at least in Exchange 2000.  I think there should be a second
part in earlier Exchange messages too, but perhaps it's not
iCalendar stuff.  In any case, if what you cut away was actually
not usable information, while it might be "nice" to be able to
parse even that informal version, it probably isn't very useful in
practise, because you probably cannot reply to the request (here
I'm not meaning iCalendar request as this all was assuming that the
clipped part was not iCalendar stuff in that earlier Exchange).

-- 
Hannu

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Chris Shenton]

On 03 Jan 2001 17:01:27 +0200, Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> said:

Hannu> for my purpose the Exchange server needs not be involved at
Hannu> all.  That is, a system that lets me to keep the calendar data
Hannu> on Emacs-based software is enough --- I don't need to (or
Hannu> rather: I don't want to) access it from Exchange too.  Of
Hannu> course, sharing calendar stuff with Exchange might be a cool
Hannu> addition for some users, but it's something that probably
Hannu> someone else needs to take a look at, though I don't think
Hannu> there's much to look at --- at least...

Ditto for me, but I think the architecture should support a variety of
calendar backends. Perhaps some native UNIX one, Palm, Hexchange, ...
Synchronization is important with any of these backends.

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[William M. Perry]

Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> writes:

> wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
> 
> | Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> | 
> | > On 03 Jan 2001, Jaap-Henk Hoepman wrote:
> | > 
> | > > I really would love this too (not necessarily within gnus
> | > > though). Problem is that IMAP appears not to be enough to access the
> | > > calender and contact items stored on the Exchange server. You can
> | > > get the subjects, but not the date and time of the
> | > > appointment. Apparantly MAPI is needed to access these other
> | > > details.
> | > 
> | > If I were to implement such stuff, I'd put the additional information
> | > into some hidden message header fields.  So that's probably precisely
> 
> Uh, you would need quite a lot of header data.  Anyways, in Microsoft's
> case the relevant information is fortunately not in the header fields,
> it's in the body...
> 
> | > what Microsoft did not do.  But I think it doesn't hurt to do `C-u g' on
> | > such a message just to be sure.
> 
> ...but `C-u g' is a good thing to do anyway, because Gnus doesn't
> display the relevant MIME part by default.

For me, there is no other MIME part.  The content-type of the main message
is text/plain (charset of iso-8859-1), and there is nothing else in the
message.  No iCalendar or vCalendar at all.

All hail exchange and its many faces!

-Bill P.

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Charles Sebold]

On 8 Teveth 5761, Kevin A. Burton wrote:

> I thought about this a while back... .......  I don't think I want
> Calendar stuff within Emacs.  Startup up Gnome Calendar... how would
> you have such a nice interface within Emacs??? You can't :(...  it
> wouldn't be nice :(

I just fired up GNOME Calendar for the first time, to see the nice
interface.  Eh.  It doesn't look particularly groundbreaking to me.  But
perhaps I don't have the latest one.  (I did update to the latest Helix
GNOME recently, though.)

I don't see any reason why: 1) all of those interfaces couldn't be
replicated in Emacs, or 2) why you would want your calendar so "far
away," in an application sense, from your mail client, current todo
lists, diary, appointment reminders, etc.  Of course if you aren't doing
all this in Emacs already, then perhaps it isn't that big of a deal for
you.  Also, it would be nice to be able to deal with this from a tty,
rather than requiring an X11 interface every time I need to consult it.

> It would still be nice to have all the Emacs lisp magic.............. 

_This_ strikes me as being the most important thing.  If the calendar
not only could speak this distributed-calendar language that all these
Outlook users rave about, but could be customized and automated in Emacs
Lisp....well, I might actually have to use it.

That said, I haven't seen the need in my own work to automate my own
schedule that completely.  And if it ever did become so overwhelming
that I could no longer figure out when I was free for a meeting, or send
someone a copy of my to-do list...well, I should think my employer could
pay for a secretary for me then.  That would have to be an astounding
work load.  Maybe if I was the CEO or something.  (Just my opinion.  But
this feature creep seems to be getting sillier by the minute to me.)
-- 
Charles Sebold
Random Answer to an Emacs Very Frequently Asked Question:
 Change from Unix to Mac or DOS files using M-x set-buffer-file-coding-system.
--
8th of Teveth, 5761
--
Zippy:  Griffy, I think th' INTERNET may come from the DEVIL...
Griffy: He's definitely got a piece of Ebay.

 -- Zippy the Pinhead, 20 November 2000

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 03 Jan 2001, Charles Sebold wrote:

> That said, I haven't seen the need in my own work to automate my own
> schedule that completely.  And if it ever did become so overwhelming
> that I could no longer figure out when I was free for a meeting, or
> send someone a copy of my to-do list...well, I should think my
> employer could pay for a secretary for me then.

I think the idea is that you can see other people's schedules.  And if
you want to meet with four other people, an automatic intersection of
all free times might be nice.  Of course, if you would overlay the
five schedules on top of each other, you could also see at a glance
when there are time slots that are free for everybody.

Just my two cents,
kai
-- 
~/.signature

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Charles Sebold]

On 8 Teveth 5761, Kai Großjohann wrote:

> I think the idea is that you can see other people's schedules.  And if
> you want to meet with four other people, an automatic intersection of
> all free times might be nice.  Of course, if you would overlay the
> five schedules on top of each other, you could also see at a glance
> when there are time slots that are free for everybody.

I suppose that could be handy.  Still can't picture the need, though.  I
regularly have meeting with 2-10 people, we're all quite busy (not that
you'd know it from my posting history here), but figuring out when we're
all free is not that big of a hassle.  Then they are able to make
priority decisions too (like, can I bump this schedule item so we can
have our meeting?).  But perhaps this system considers all that?
-- 
Charles Sebold
Random Answer to an Emacs Very Frequently Asked Question:
 Try it with emacs -q --no-site-file to be sure that it isn't your .emacs.
--
8th of Teveth, 5761
--
Daily Affirmation:
In some cultures what I do would be considered normal.

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> writes:

> Jaap-Henk Hoepman <hoepman@cs.utwente.nl> writes:
> 
> [FWIW, since no one seems to be working on this, I'm going to at
> least start reading iCalendar RFCs.]

I am working on iCalendar.  Currently, it can parse and generate
vCalendar format and one can view (simple) VEVENTs in Gnus groups.  I
need more time to implement the RRULEs and others.

ShengHuo

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Paul Jarc]

Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> writes:
> [I don't want copies of list mail.  Let's see if Mail-Followup-To
> will help.]

I submitted a (rudimentary) patch for that a while ago.  ShengHuo said
it was committed in CVS, but it seems not to have made it into the
5.8.8 release.


paul

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[ShengHuo ZHU]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

> Hannu Koivisto <azure@iki.fi> writes:
> > [I don't want copies of list mail.  Let's see if Mail-Followup-To
> > will help.]
> 
> I submitted a (rudimentary) patch for that a while ago.  ShengHuo said
> it was committed in CVS, but it seems not to have made it into the
> 5.8.8 release.

It is in oGnus v0.01.

ShengHuo

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Toby Speight]

0> In article <86bstopntx.fsf@megalith.bp.aventail.com>,
0> William M. Perry <URL:mailto:wmperry@aventail.com> ("Bill") wrote:

Bill> All hail Exchange and its many faces!
You seem to be missing the letter 'e' ^^ here.

Re: vCalendar/iCalendar support for Gnus?

[Amos Gouaux]

>>>>> On 03 Jan 2001 12:14:01 -0600,
>>>>> Charles Sebold <csebold@ezl.com> (cs) writes:

cs> On 8 Teveth 5761, Kai Großjohann wrote:
>> I think the idea is that you can see other people's schedules.  And if
>> you want to meet with four other people, an automatic intersection of
>> all free times might be nice.  Of course, if you would overlay the
>> five schedules on top of each other, you could also see at a glance
>> when there are time slots that are free for everybody.

cs> I suppose that could be handy.  Still can't picture the need, though.  I

This, and the ability to share calendars, is a big part why the
Exchange Imperium is fixin to sweep over our campus.  Department
heads want to be able to allow their administrative assistants to
manage their calendar, which is not an unreasonable requirement.

We've spent a fair bit of time, effort, and money to have a
reasonably fast and reliable mail system (relying mostly on Cyrus).
However, without calendaring, it may very well turn out that much of
this effort was in vain.

-- 
Amos