nnslashdot usage

nnslashdot usage

[Ami Fischman]

Hi -- curious to hear how people are using nnslashdot.  Following the
manual, I am able to browse the slashdot server, and subscribe to topics as
groups, and then read them.  However, this seems clunky to me (possibly b/c
I've only done it three times now :)).  What seems more aligned with Gnus'
current situation is to have ONE group for nnslashdot, which got new topics
as articles, and the followup posts to the topic would be threaded under the
initial topic article.  This would allow normal scoring, would minimize the
number of changes in the *Group* buffer, and in general, would be less
strange to my eyes.

Am I all alone in this?
-- 
  Ami Fischman
  usenet@fischman.org

Re: nnslashdot usage

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Ami Fischman <usenet@fischman.org> writes:

> Hi -- curious to hear how people are using nnslashdot.  Following the
> manual, I am able to browse the slashdot server, and subscribe to topics as
> groups, and then read them.  However, this seems clunky to me (possibly b/c
> I've only done it three times now :)).  What seems more aligned with Gnus'
> current situation is to have ONE group for nnslashdot, which got new topics
> as articles, and the followup posts to the topic would be threaded under the
> initial topic article.  This would allow normal scoring, would minimize the
> number of changes in the *Group* buffer, and in general, would be less
> strange to my eyes.

nnrss:Slashdot lists topics as articles, but it doesn't show the
followups.  The all-in-one solution is difficult to implement, because
of the difficulties in maintaining the map of article numbers.

ShengHuo

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Ami Fischman]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

[...]

> nnrss:Slashdot lists topics as articles, but it doesn't show the
> followups.  The all-in-one solution is difficult to implement, because
> of the difficulties in maintaining the map of article numbers.

Thanks for the reply.  Gave nnrss a shot, but it doesn't seem to
automatically fetch the stories here (i.e., each article shows up as just a
URL to the story).  Is that intentional?  Is there a way to force the
retrieval of the story without explicitly clicking on the widget in the
article?  I'm using the browse-nnrss-url function from the  info file:

(require 'nnrss)
(require 'browse-url)
(defun browse-nnrss-url( arg )
  (interactive "p")
  (let ((url (assq nnrss-url-field
		   (mail-header-extra
		    (gnus-data-header
		     (assq (gnus-summary-article-number)
			   gnus-newsgroup-data))))))
    (message "URL: ")
    (message url)
    (if url
	(browse-url (cdr url))
      (gnus-summary-scroll-up arg))))
(eval-after-load "gnus"
  #'(define-key gnus-summary-mode-map
      (kbd "<RET>") 'browse-nnrss-url))
(add-to-list 'nnmail-extra-headers nnrss-url-field)

but all the article buffer shows after I've hit "RET" in the summary buffer
is a highlighted URL...

Is the "all-in-one" solution something that you have any plans/hopes of
implementing?  Or are you happy with nnslashdot as it is now?

Thanks,
-- 
  Ami Fischman
  usenet@fischman.org

Re: nnslashdot usage

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Ami Fischman <usenet@fischman.org> writes:

> ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> nnrss:Slashdot lists topics as articles, but it doesn't show the
>> followups.  The all-in-one solution is difficult to implement, because
>> of the difficulties in maintaining the map of article numbers.
>
> Thanks for the reply.  Gave nnrss a shot, but it doesn't seem to
> automatically fetch the stories here (i.e., each article shows up as just a
> URL to the story).  Is that intentional?  Is there a way to force the
> retrieval of the story without explicitly clicking on the widget in the
> article?  I'm using the browse-nnrss-url function from the  info file:

nnrss is a backend for files in RSS (or RDF) format.  Slashdot
provides such a file, but no descriptions, therefore, no stories.

> (require 'nnrss)
> (require 'browse-url)
> (defun browse-nnrss-url( arg )
>   (interactive "p")
>   (let ((url (assq nnrss-url-field
> 		   (mail-header-extra
> 		    (gnus-data-header
> 		     (assq (gnus-summary-article-number)
> 			   gnus-newsgroup-data))))))
>     (message "URL: ")
>     (message url)
>     (if url
> 	(browse-url (cdr url))
>       (gnus-summary-scroll-up arg))))
> (eval-after-load "gnus"
>   #'(define-key gnus-summary-mode-map
>       (kbd "<RET>") 'browse-nnrss-url))
> (add-to-list 'nnmail-extra-headers nnrss-url-field)
>
> but all the article buffer shows after I've hit "RET" in the summary buffer
> is a highlighted URL...

It sends the URL to your (external) browser.  (Actually, I don't use
this code.)

> Is the "all-in-one" solution something that you have any plans/hopes of
> implementing?  Or are you happy with nnslashdot as it is now?

Maybe nnslashdot is a little strange at the first sight. However,
after using it for two years, I am happy with it.  So, I am not going
to implement the all-in-one solution. Does anyone want to implement
it?

ShengHuo

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Kai Großjohann]

Ami Fischman <usenet@fischman.org> writes:

> Hi -- curious to hear how people are using nnslashdot.  Following the
> manual, I am able to browse the slashdot server, and subscribe to topics as
> groups, and then read them.  However, this seems clunky to me (possibly b/c
> I've only done it three times now :)).  What seems more aligned with Gnus'
> current situation is to have ONE group for nnslashdot, which got new topics
> as articles, and the followup posts to the topic would be threaded under the
> initial topic article.

But the solution you want seems to be difficult to implement, as
ShengHuo says.

You might get closer to what you want by using topic subscriptions:
create a topic for nnslashdot and arrange all new nnslashdot groups to
be subscribed under that topic.  Then you can open or close the topic
in the *Group* buffer and it will not be as visually disturbing.

kai
-- 
Simplification good!  Oversimplification bad!  (Larry Wall)

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Ami Fischman]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

[...]

> But the solution you want seems to be difficult to implement, as
> ShengHuo says.

That's why I haven't done it myself yet :)

> You might get closer to what you want by using topic subscriptions:
> create a topic for nnslashdot and arrange all new nnslashdot groups to
> be subscribed under that topic.  Then you can open or close the topic
> in the *Group* buffer and it will not be as visually disturbing.

I will try that, though I am easily disturbed, so not optimistic here...;)

-- 
  Ami Fischman
  usenet@fischman.org

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Ami Fischman]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

[...]

> followups.  The all-in-one solution is difficult to implement, because
> of the difficulties in maintaining the map of article numbers.

Actually, a "cheat" just occured to me.  Have all the nnslashdot groups go
into a collapsed topic, as Kai suggested, and have an nnvirtual group
collect all the articles from the nnslashdot groups.  Tried this, but have
run into a few snags:

1)  Threading happens correctly, which is unfortunate :).  Specifically,
    followups are threaded correctly, but they are not marked as having the
    "headline" article as a parent, so all of the followups are mixed up
    together.  I'm thinking that it should be possible to cook up a prefix
    for the nnvirtual group's summary buffer, so that every followup article
    will get it's (original nnslashdot) group name prepended in some way
    (probably just an ID number), so that followups thread under their OP.

2)  For some reason, I can not read followups in the virtual group.  When I
    attempt to display an "original" post (i.e. one of the headlines on the
    front page of slashdot), it shows fine.  But if I move to a "followup"
    post, I get:
nnslashdot-lose: Slashdot HTML has changed; please get a new version of nnslashdot

    A debug-on-error shows that the failure happens at:

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Slashdot HTML has changed; please get a new version of nnslashdot")
  signal(error ("Slashdot HTML has changed; please get a new version of nnslashdot"))
  error("Slashdot HTML has changed; please get a new version of nnslashdot")
  nnslashdot-lose((search-failed "<a name=\"2679018\">"))
  nnslashdot-request-article(4 "Wiring A New House? (01/12/09/1847251)" "" #<buffer *Article*>)
  gnus-request-article(4 "nnslashdot:Wiring A New House? (01/12/09/1847251)" #<buffer *Article*>)
  gnus-request-article-this-buffer(4 "nnslashdot:Wiring A New House? (01/12/09/1847251)")
  nnvirtual-request-article(4 "slashdot-all" "nnslashdot:" #<buffer *Article*>)
  gnus-request-article(4 "nnvirtual:slashdot-all" #<buffer *Article*>)
  gnus-request-article-this-buffer(4 "nnvirtual:slashdot-all")
  gnus-article-prepare(4 nil)
  gnus-summary-display-article(4 nil)
  gnus-summary-select-article(nil nil pseudo)
  gnus-summary-scroll-up(1)

    However, I have not been able to find the "raw" text to analyze the
    problem.  

So, what I'm looking for is some handholding on the above (with the hope
that the final procedure will work in the "all-in-one solution" referenced
above, and maybe make it into the manual).

Thanks,
-- 
  Ami Fischman
  usenet@fischman.org

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ami Fischman <usenet@fischman.org> writes:

> What seems more aligned with Gnus' current situation is to have ONE
> group for nnslashdot, which got new topics as articles, and the
> followup posts to the topic would be threaded under the initial
> topic article.  This would allow normal scoring, would minimize the
> number of changes in the *Group* buffer, and in general, would be
> less strange to my eyes.

That would be more natural, yes, but it's just difficult to
implement.  The mapping two/from slashdot comments to Gnus article
numbers is fiddly, and it would just take lots and lots of time to
fetch the slashdot articles to build such a group.

I just put the slashdot groups into it own topic, and that works
somewhat OK for me.  The main problem is getting rid of the groups
after they've become obsolete.  (For reasons of efficiency -- if
you've run nnslashdot for a year, you'll have a few thousand
subscribed groups in there.)

Perhaps there should be a way to expire the groups themselves.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: nnslashdot usage

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:


[...]

> I just put the slashdot groups into it own topic, and that works
> somewhat OK for me.  The main problem is getting rid of the groups
> after they've become obsolete.  (For reasons of efficiency -- if
> you've run nnslashdot for a year, you'll have a few thousand
> subscribed groups in there.)
>
> Perhaps there should be a way to expire the groups themselves.  :-)

Yes, it has been done. Set total-expirable and expiry-wait for all
nnslashdot groups.  Once a while, run gnus-group-check-bogus-groups
(`b' in the group buffer). Old nnslashdot groups are gone.

ShengHuo

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Yes, it has been done. Set total-expirable and expiry-wait for all
> nnslashdot groups.  Once a while, run gnus-group-check-bogus-groups
> (`b' in the group buffer). Old nnslashdot groups are gone.

Cool.  :-)

I'll add those parameters to my slashdot topic...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Bruce Z. Lysik]

>>>>> "ZSH" == Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

    ZSH> It seems correct. Are you sure you've updated to the latest
    ZSH> CVS, since nnslashdot.el is fixed so frequently?  In case `F'
    ZSH> doesn't work, try to browse the newsgroups in the Server
    ZSH> buffer (type `^' in Group buffer).

They were coming in as zombie groups, and I wasn't noticing them.  I
should've looked more before posting.

    ZSH> I just said how to put the new slashdot groups into a topic.

I found in the message in the archives I was thinking about.  It was
the whole gnus-subscribe-topics deal.  Thanks.

-- 
Bruce Z. Lysik  <eldrik@logrus.com>   http://www.logrus.com/~eldrik
GCS d++(-) a-- C++ ULS+++$ P+++$ L++ E+ W+++ N++ w--- M-- V PS PE
Y+ PGP+ t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b++ DI+ G e++ h+ r y+ s

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Laura Conrad]

>>>>> "Shenghuo" == Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

>>>>> "BZL" == Bruce Z Lysik <eldrik@logrus.com> writes:

    BZL> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "private")
    BZL> (nnslashdot "")))

    BZL> Unfortunately this didn't seem to do anything, as hitting 'F'
    BZL> resulted in no new groups appearing.

    BZL> Am I going about this the wrong way?

    Shenghuo> It seems correct. Are you sure you've updated to the
    Shenghuo> latest CVS, since nnslashdot.el is fixed so frequently?
    Shenghuo> In case `F' doesn't work, try to browse the newsgroups
    Shenghuo> in the Server buffer (type `^' in Group buffer).

I have a similar setup, and I find that I have to both type F and list 
zombies (A z).  Then when I have the list of zombies, I subscribe (U)
the ones I'm interested in, and when I've read one as much as I want
to I kill (^K) it.  It seems like a lot of overhead per group.

-- 
Laura (mailto:lconrad@world.std.com , http://www.world.std.com/~lconrad/ )
(617) 661-8097	fax: (801) 365-6574 
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139

Re: nnslashdot usage

[Shenghuo ZHU]

>>>>> "BZL" == Bruce Z Lysik <eldrik@logrus.com> writes:

BZL> Hi guys,
BZL> So I've made the jump to the CVS version of pgnus, and I've a question 
BZL> regarding nnslashdot.

BZL> The info file recommends:

BZL>      (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
BZL>            '((nnslashdot "")))

BZL> and then using 'F' to subscribe to the subsequent groups.

BZL> Currently I have have an nnml secondary select method.  Thinking I
BZL> could just have multiple methods, I tried:
   
BZL>      (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
BZL>            '((nnml "private")
BZL> 	    (nnslashdot "")))

BZL> Unfortunately this didn't seem to do anything, as hitting 'F' resulted 
BZL> in no new groups appearing.

BZL> Am I going about this the wrong way?

It seems correct. Are you sure you've updated to the latest CVS, since
nnslashdot.el is fixed so frequently?  In case `F' doesn't work, try
to browse the newsgroups in the Server buffer (type `^' in Group
buffer).

>>>>> "BZL" == Bruce Z Lysik <eldrik@logrus.com> writes:

BZL> Hi there!

BZL> I remembering reading on ding sometime ago you mentioning a trick
BZL> to manage nnslashdot via a topic.

BZL> Do you remember what I'm talking about?  I've been playing with
BZL> nnslashdot, and it seems very unwieldy as is.


[...]

I just said how to put the new slashdot groups into a topic.

-- 
Shenghuo ZHU

nnslashdot usage

[Bruce Z. Lysik]

Hi guys,

So I've made the jump to the CVS version of pgnus, and I've a question 
regarding nnslashdot.

The info file recommends:

     (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
           '((nnslashdot "")))

and then using 'F' to subscribe to the subsequent groups.

Currently I have have an nnml secondary select method.  Thinking I
could just have multiple methods, I tried:
   
     (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
           '((nnml "private")
	    (nnslashdot "")))

Unfortunately this didn't seem to do anything, as hitting 'F' resulted 
in no new groups appearing.

Am I going about this the wrong way?

-- 
Bruce Z. Lysik  <eldrik@logrus.com>   http://www.logrus.com/~eldrik
GCS d++(-) a-- C++ ULS+++$ P+++$ L++ E+ W+++ N++ w--- M-- V PS PE
Y+ PGP+ t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b++ DI+ G e++ h+ r y+ s