want my comments above quoted matter

want my comments above quoted matter

[jidanni]

Gentlemen, as you know, it is all the rage these days to put their
response _above_ quoted lines instead of below. E.g.,

  Kool!
  >>>>> "M" == Annette Mom Jacobson <MOM@example.org> writes:
  M> Does junior want some bomboms?

My question is does Supercite and / or gnus have settings to cater to
such young desires?

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:45:28 +0800 jidanni@jidanni.org wrote: 

j> Gentlemen, as you know, it is all the rage these days to put their
j> response _above_ quoted lines instead of below. E.g.,

j>   Kool!
>>>>>> "M" == Annette Mom Jacobson <MOM@example.org> writes:
M> Does junior want some bomboms?

j> My question is does Supercite and / or gnus have settings to cater to
j> such young desires?

No way, that's a terrible idea.  It goes against everything Gnus stands for.
I hope we never make this easy for the users.

Ted

p.s. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/76283/focus=76331

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Tassilo Horn]

jidanni@jidanni.org writes:

> Gentlemen, as you know, it is all the rage these days to put their
> response _above_ quoted lines instead of below. E.g.,
>
>   Kool!
>   >>>>> "M" == Annette Mom Jacobson <MOM@example.org> writes:
>   M> Does junior want some bomboms?
>
> My question is does Supercite and / or gnus have settings to cater to
> such young desires?

I don't see a reason to start using that dumb, stupid style of quoting
only because others also do so.  Message mode has a variable for
starting your text above the quoted text, and it is easily findable with
the usual emacs help facilities.  However, I won't mention its name in
the hope that you come to your senses again.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Gary]

Tassilo Horn wrote:
> I won't mention its name in
> the hope that you come to your senses again.

You're evil. Which is not a bad thing.

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Peter Münster]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> I don't see a reason to start using that dumb, stupid style of quoting
> only because others also do so.  Message mode has a variable for
> starting your text above the quoted text, and it is easily findable with
> the usual emacs help facilities.  However, I won't mention its name in
> the hope that you come to your senses again.

Great speech!

Feature request: remove this useless variable (don't know its name) ;-)

-- 
           Peter

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:33:32 +0100 Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> wrote: 

TH> I don't see a reason to start using that dumb, stupid style of quoting
TH> only because others also do so.  Message mode has a variable for
TH> starting your text above the quoted text, and it is easily findable with
TH> the usual emacs help facilities.  However, I won't mention its name in
TH> the hope that you come to your senses again.

I think Gnus should totally support that quoting style and make it
easier for users to enable it.  Vox populi, etc.

Ted

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Michael Albinus]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:33:32 +0100 Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> wrote:
>
> TH> I don't see a reason to start using that dumb, stupid style of quoting
> TH> only because others also do so.  Message mode has a variable for
> TH> starting your text above the quoted text, and it is easily findable with
> TH> the usual emacs help facilities.  However, I won't mention its name in
> TH> the hope that you come to your senses again.
>
> I think Gnus should totally support that quoting style and make it
> easier for users to enable it.  Vox populi, etc.

1+

Other features, badly missed in gnus, are

- All messages shall be sent in MS Word format. Alternatively in HTML,
  with jumping bold red exclamation marks after every sentence. Plus all
  those <ms:xxx> ... tags.

- All powerpoint and excel attachments shall be kept in responses.

- Mail addresses shall be completely hidden in header lines, just the
  name shall be shown (and reachable)

- <add your favorite feature>

> Ted

Best regards, Michael.

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Tassilo Horn]

<w:document xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing"><w:body><w:p><w:pPr><w:pStyle w:val="style0"/></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr><w:u w:val="single"/></w:rPr><w:t>Hello Michael,</w:t></w:r></w:p><w:p><w:pPr><w:pStyle w:val="style0"/></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr></w:r></w:p><w:p><w:pPr><w:pStyle w:val="style0"/></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t xml:space="preserve">I </w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr><w:b/><w:bCs/></w:rPr><w:t>totally</w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t xml:space="preserve"> agree with all you said below.  Additionally, there should be at least </w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr><w:b/><w:bCs/></w:rPr><w:t>30 custom smiley themes</w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t xml:space="preserve"> (</w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr><w:i/><w:iCs/></w:rPr><w:t>blinking</w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t xml:space="preserve"> and </w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr><w:i/><w:iCs/></w:rPr><w:t>animated</w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t xml:space="preserve">) in some proprietary format only </w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr><w:i/><w:u w:val="single"/><w:b/><w:iCs/><w:bCs/></w:rPr><w:t>Gnus</w:t></w:r><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t xml:space="preserve"> can handle.</w:t></w:r></w:p><w:p><w:pPr><w:pStyle w:val="style0"/></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr></w:r></w:p><w:p><w:pPr><w:pStyle w:val="style0"/></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t>Bye,</w:t></w:r></w:p><w:p><w:pPr><w:pStyle w:val="style0"/></w:pPr><w:r><w:rPr></w:rPr><w:t>Tassilo</w:t></w:r></w:p><w:sectPr><w:formProt w:val="off"/><w:pgSz w:h="16838" w:w="11906"/><w:textDirection w:val="lrTb"/><w:pgNumType w:fmt="decimal"/><w:type w:val="nextPage"/><w:pgMar w:bottom="1134" w:left="1134" w:right="1134" w:top="1134"/></w:sectPr></w:body></w:document>

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes:

> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:33:32 +0100 Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> wrote:
>>
>> TH> I don't see a reason to start using that dumb, stupid style of quoting
>> TH> only because others also do so.  Message mode has a variable for
>> TH> starting your text above the quoted text, and it is easily findable with
>> TH> the usual emacs help facilities.  However, I won't mention its name in
>> TH> the hope that you come to your senses again.
>>
>> I think Gnus should totally support that quoting style and make it
>> easier for users to enable it.  Vox populi, etc.
>
> 1+
>
> Other features, badly missed in gnus, are
>
> - All messages shall be sent in MS Word format. Alternatively in HTML,
>   with jumping bold red exclamation marks after every sentence. Plus all
>   those <ms:xxx> ... tags.
>
> - All powerpoint and excel attachments shall be kept in responses.
>
> - Mail addresses shall be completely hidden in header lines, just the
>   name shall be shown (and reachable)
>
> - <add your favorite feature>
>
>> Ted
>
> Best regards, Michael.
>

-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:50:36 +0100 Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote: 

MA> Other features, badly missed in gnus, are
[...]
MA> - <add your favorite feature>

- Old Slavonic auto-translation of articles

- statistical analysis of gravatars to find pr0n

- thread sorting by AWESOMENESS

- automatic flame forms for the common cases (100+)

- iAds / Google Ads AKA "let's monetize *their* content"

- iTunes iNtegration

- nmap port scans done in the background

- boss key to show Excel spreadsheet

Come on Lars, you wanted a TODO list...

Ted

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Francis Moreau]

Hi Tassilo,

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> jidanni@jidanni.org writes:
>
>> Gentlemen, as you know, it is all the rage these days to put their
>> response _above_ quoted lines instead of below. E.g.,
>>
>>   Kool!
>>   >>>>> "M" == Annette Mom Jacobson <MOM@example.org> writes:
>>   M> Does junior want some bomboms?
>>
>> My question is does Supercite and / or gnus have settings to cater to
>> such young desires?
>
> I don't see a reason to start using that dumb, stupid style of quoting
> only because others also do so.  Message mode has a variable for
> starting your text above the quoted text, and it is easily findable with
> the usual emacs help facilities.  However, I won't mention its name in
> the hope that you come to your senses again.

BTW, I'm problably missing something but I'd like my cursor to be put
below the quoted text, where the signature was before being cleaned up.

Currently the cursor is set to following line:

          Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

which means for me: "do you top posting".

PS: you signature is not respecting the "--\n" marker so it's not
automatically cleaned up. Is there any reason for that choice ?

Thanks
-- 
Francis

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Tassilo Horn]

Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Francis,

> BTW, I'm problably missing something but I'd like my cursor to be put
> below the quoted text, where the signature was before being cleaned
> up.
>
> Currently the cursor is set to following line:
>
>           Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:
>
> which means for me: "do you top posting".

For me, it is put just below that intro line, which means: "read and add
your replies to the original poster's question in the order (s)he stated
them". :-)

> PS: you signature is not respecting the "--\n" marker so it's not
> automatically cleaned up. Is there any reason for that choice ?

"--\n" is not the correct signature marker.  The correct one is "-- \n"
(not the one space after --).  And that's what I'm using.

,----[ http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt ]
| 4.3.  Usenet Signature Convention
| 
|    There is a long-standing convention in Usenet news which also
|    commonly appears in Internet mail of using "-- " as the separator
|    line between the body and the signature of a message.
`----

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Francis Moreau]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> BTW, I'm problably missing something but I'd like my cursor to be put
>> below the quoted text, where the signature was before being cleaned
>> up.
>>
>> Currently the cursor is set to following line:
>>
>>           Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:
>>
>> which means for me: "do you top posting".
>
> For me, it is put just below that intro line, which means: "read and add
> your replies to the original poster's question in the order (s)he stated
> them". :-)

That's right, but I'm always finding me to move the cursor around that
make me think that this position is always wrong.

At least moving the cursor to the last statement is sometime the good
thing to do.

Perhaps movin the cursor to the end of the first paragraph could be
better.

>
>> PS: you signature is not respecting the "--\n" marker so it's not
>> automatically cleaned up. Is there any reason for that choice ?
>
> "--\n" is not the correct signature marker.  The correct one is "-- \n"
> (not the one space after --).  And that's what I'm using.

ok but the following bit:

   Bye,
   Tassilo

is _above_ the signature marker which means that Gnus will not
automatically delete this and the burden is left to the poster.

-- 
Francis

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Tassilo Horn]

Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Francis,

>> For me, it is put just below that intro line, which means: "read and
>> add your replies to the original poster's question in the order (s)he
>> stated them". :-)
>
> That's right, but I'm always finding me to move the cursor around that
> make me think that this position is always wrong.
>
> At least moving the cursor to the last statement is sometime the good
> thing to do.

Well, IMO that encourages quoting the complete original message and
putting the answer below, which is nearly as bad as top-posting with
full-quote below.

> Perhaps movin the cursor to the end of the first paragraph could be
> better.

Yes, that might be a good idea.

>> "--\n" is not the correct signature marker.  The correct one is "--
>> \n" (not the one space after --).  And that's what I'm using.
>
> ok but the following bit:
>
>    Bye,
>    Tassilo
>
> is _above_ the signature marker which means that Gnus will not
> automatically delete this and the burden is left to the poster.

Yes, that's right.  But for me, a greeting is not neccessarily something
belonging in the signature.  I use that for a snappy remark, and a
greeting above would somehow look strange...

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Francis Moreau]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes:

[...]

>>
>> ok but the following bit:
>>
>>    Bye,
>>    Tassilo
>>
>> is _above_ the signature marker which means that Gnus will not
>> automatically delete this and the burden is left to the poster.
>
> Yes, that's right.  But for me, a greeting is not neccessarily something
> belonging in the signature.

But your name is.

> I use that for a snappy remark, and a greeting above would somehow
> look strange...

You meant below, didn't you ?

That's correct, maybe gnus could be a little bit smarter here and
automatically delete such greeting (Bye, CIAO, thanks...).
-- 
Francis

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:31:45 +0100, Francis wrote:

> That's correct, maybe gnus could be a little bit smarter here and
> automatically delete such greeting (Bye, CIAO, thanks...).

You don't just use C-c C-z when you have answered the last quote you
want to answer?

,----[ C-h k C-c C-z ]
| C-c C-z runs the command message-kill-to-signature, which is an
| interactive compiled Lisp function in `message.el'.
| 
| It is bound to C-c C-z, <menu-bar> <Message> <Kill To Signature>.
| 
| (message-kill-to-signature &optional ARG)
| 
| Kill all text up to the signature.
| If a numeric argument or prefix arg is given, leave that number
| of lines before the signature intact.
`----


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "I went for the fireengines                                  Adam Sjøgren
  But they were all upside down"                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Francis Moreau]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:31:45 +0100, Francis wrote:
>
>> That's correct, maybe gnus could be a little bit smarter here and
>> automatically delete such greeting (Bye, CIAO, thanks...).
>
> You don't just use C-c C-z when you have answered the last quote you
> want to answer?
>

yes I do, but when I want to directly answer the last quote, I don't
sell across all paragraphes. I usually do 'C-c C-i' to got to the
signature and then move the cursor above it.

BTW, is there a command to directly go just above my signature ?
-- 
Francis

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Tassilo Horn]

Francis Moreau <francis.moro@gmail.com> writes:

Hi,

> BTW, is there a command to directly go just above my signature ?

You could add something like

  (lambda () (re-search-forward message-signature-separator
                                nil t))

to your `message-mode-hook'.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> - Old Slavonic auto-translation of articles
>
> - statistical analysis of gravatars to find pr0n
>
> - thread sorting by AWESOMENESS
>
> - automatic flame forms for the common cases (100+)
>
> - iAds / Google Ads AKA "let's monetize *their* content"

I'm all for all these things.  I loves me some ads.

> - iTunes iNtegration
>
> - nmap port scans done in the background
>
> - boss key to show Excel spreadsheet

Hm.  I thought I implemented this last one at some point?

> Come on Lars, you wanted a TODO list...

Did I really?  Really?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: want my comments above quoted matter

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> I think Gnus should totally support that quoting style and make it
> easier for users to enable it.

Me too.  I think the `message-cite-style' variable as previously
discussed would be the way to go.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen