[Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer]

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On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:

> This is a test of the html option
>
> answer without newline

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Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
>
>     This is a test of the html option
>     
>     
> answer without newline
> ----------

This is what it looks like to me.  Which looks sensible to me.  Are you
seeing something different?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
   >> 
   >> This is a test of the html option
   >> 
   >> 
   >> answer without newline
   >> ----------

   > This is what it looks like to me.  Which looks sensible
   > to me.  Are you seeing something different?

I don't understand you
   >> This is a test of the html option
is the orginal message

>> answer without newline
is supposed to be the answer, to it should be displayed as 

>> This is a test of the html option (orginal message)
answer without newline

So when I reply I would obtain 
>> This is a test of the html option (orginal message)
> answer without newline
this answer does not make sense


This is the behavior I am used to for ages. I don't get your
point.

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>>> answer without newline
> is supposed to be the answer, to it should be displayed as 
>
>>> This is a test of the html option (orginal message)
> answer without newline

Uhm....

This is the HTML:

<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Uwe Brauer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:oub@mat.ucm.es">oub@mat.ucm.es</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

This is a test of the html option<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>answer without newline<br>

The string "(original message)" doesn't appear there at all, so why
should Gnus display that string anywhere? 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >>>> answer without newline
   >> is supposed to be the answer, to it should be displayed as 
   >> 
   >>>> This is a test of the html option (orginal message)
   >> answer without newline

   > Uhm....

   > This is the HTML:

   > <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Uwe
   > Brauer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
   > href="mailto:oub@mat.ucm.es">oub@mat.ucm.es</a>&gt;</span>
   > wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
   > solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:
   > 1ex;">

   > This is a test of the html option<br>
   > <br>
   > </blockquote></div>answer without newline<br>

   > The string "(original message)" doesn't appear there at all, so why
   > should Gnus display that string anywhere? 


I just added it now to make my point clear. It seems that
there is quite a misunderstanding.

Again:

I write to a gmail address. My message is just one line.

This is a test of the html option


He replies using the html option and sets the answer just
below my line without a inserting a newline. He sees

|This is a test of the html option
answer without newline

Send its. It arrives and gnus displays it (in the summary
buffer I have not hit yet the reply button) as 


> This is a test of the html option
>
> answer without newline

Which is of course wrong because it gives the impression
that both lines belong to the same message while they do
not.

The message should be displayed as does thunderbird and
gmail as 


> This is a test of the html option
>
answer without newline.

I will again forward that message.

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:40:58 +0100 Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote: 

UB> The message should be displayed as does thunderbird and
UB> gmail as 

>> This is a test of the html option
>> 
UB> answer without newline.

The actual HTML is:

<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Uwe Brauer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:oub@mat.ucm.es">oub@mat.ucm.es</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

This is a test of the html option<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>answer without newline<br>

Lars, would it work to make 'blockquote' elements introduce a newline?
They are supposed to be block-level elements in HTML and according to
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_blockquote.asp they are supposed to be
rendered surrounded by white space and margins.

Ted

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> adds:


   > This is a test of the html option<br>
   > <br>
   > </blockquote></div>answer without newline<br>

   > Lars, would it work to make 'blockquote' elements
   > introduce a newline?  They are supposed to be
   > block-level elements in HTML and according to
   > http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_blockquote.asp they
   > are supposed to be rendered surrounded by white space
   > and margins.

So I understand you correctly the one to blame is gnus but
not gmail?

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> adds:


   > <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Uwe
   > Brauer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
   > href="mailto:oub@mat.ucm.es">oub@mat.ucm.es</a>&gt;</span>
   > wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
   > solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:
   > 1ex;">

   > This is a test of the html option<br>
   > <br>
   > </blockquote></div>answer without newline<br>



What I also don't understand is this, when I use thunderbird
with send html activated, and do the same procedure as in
gmail what arrives is:

Uwe Brauer wrote:
> This is a test of the html option
>
>    
answer without newline


Which is html free!

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Andreas Schwab]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> So I understand you correctly the one to blame is gnus but
> not gmail?

No, your MUA is to blame.  Your mail contains exactly that:

--==-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:

> This is a test of the html option
>
> answer without newline

--==-=-=

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> adds:

   Andreas> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> So I understand you correctly the one to blame is gnus but
   >> not gmail?

   Andreas> No, your MUA is to blame.  Your mail contains exactly that:

You mean gmail? Why is thunderbird able to display these
messages correctly (ie as expected.)
BTW I use gmail smtp server for sending all my mail, but
only if I use gmails web interface this problem occurs 
thunderbird + gmail smtp is fine.

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Andreas Schwab]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> adds:
>
>    Andreas> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>    >> So I understand you correctly the one to blame is gnus but
>    >> not gmail?
>
>    Andreas> No, your MUA is to blame.  Your mail contains exactly that:
>
> You mean gmail?

I don't know, the mail doesn't identify the MUA you used.  All I can see
that it does not know how to correctly format a mail.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 10:42:21 +0100 Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> wrote: 

AS> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>> So I understand you correctly the one to blame is gnus but
>> not gmail?

AS> No, your MUA is to blame.  Your mail contains exactly that:

AS> --==-=-=
AS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Oh, I didn't realize Uwe was looking at the text-plain content.  Never
mind.

Ted

start of art (was: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html)

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: [Uwe Brauer] Re: test html; Ted Zlatanov
>> <tzz@lifelogs.com> adds: 

   Ted> On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 10:42:21 +0100 Andreas Schwab
   Ted> <schwab@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
   AS> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>> So I understand you correctly the one to blame is gnus but
>> not gmail?

   AS> No, your MUA is to blame.  Your mail contains exactly that:

   AS> --==-=-=
   AS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

   Ted> Oh, I didn't realize Uwe was looking at the
   Ted> text-plain content.  Never mind.


What is the state of art of the problem? Why does
thunderbird display the message correctly and why does gnus
not. Andreas seems to suggest that it is due to the line
   AS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

which for some unknown reason does not cause problem for
thunderbird but it does for gnus.

Uwe 

Re: start of art

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>    Ted> Oh, I didn't realize Uwe was looking at the
>    Ted> text-plain content.  Never mind.
>
> What is the state of art of the problem? 

The message is a multipart/alternative message.  You seem to be looking
at the text/plain version, possibly because you have discouraged HTML
via `mm-discouraged-alternatives', or you don't have a HTML renderer
(like w3m) installed.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: start of art

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: start of art; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   Ted> Oh, I didn't realize Uwe was looking at the
   Ted> text-plain content.  Never mind.
   >> 
   >> What is the state of art of the problem? 

   > The message is a multipart/alternative message.  You seem to be looking
   > at the text/plain version, possibly because you have discouraged HTML
   > via `mm-discouraged-alternatives', or you don't have a HTML renderer
the value of this variable is 
Value: ("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched" "multipart/related" "image/.*")
   > (like w3m) installed.
W3m is intalled!


So what shall I do (I already told the gmail user to
activate the plain text option but I don't consider this as
a optimal solution)


   > -- 
   > (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   >   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: start of art

[Dave Goldberg]

>>> Regarding Re: start of art; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:
>> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
Ted> Oh, I didn't realize Uwe was looking at the
Ted> text-plain content.  Never mind.
>>> 
>>> What is the state of art of the problem? 

>> The message is a multipart/alternative message.  You seem to be looking
>> at the text/plain version, possibly because you have discouraged HTML
>> via `mm-discouraged-alternatives', or you don't have a HTML renderer
> the value of this variable is 
> Value: ("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched" "multipart/related" "image/.*")
>> (like w3m) installed.
> W3m is intalled!


> So what shall I do (I already told the gmail user to
> activate the plain text option but I don't consider this as
> a optimal solution)

Stop discouraging html?  The default for mm-discouraged-alternatives appears to be nil so you've customized it.  If you have a reason for doing so for most articles but prefer to see the html rendered on occasion you can set gnus-mime-display-multipart-alternative-as-mixed to t, which results in the article giving you buttons to switch between the alternatives; or you can just set gnus-inhibit-mime-unbuttonizing to t so you never miss a part, which is my preference.  If you do one of those and keep your setting for discouraging html, the text/plain should be shown by default, at least that's how I remember it working.  I no longer discourage html.  At work I ended up having to either switch to it or run K-H to show it in a browser for nearly every message.  But I don't want to start anothe
 r discussion of like the one going on in the top posting thread (I have to deal with that one at work too - my solution is similar to Ted's).


-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: start of art

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: start of art; david.goldberg6@verizon.net (Dave Goldberg) adds:

   >>>> Regarding Re: start of art; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:
>> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

   > Stop discouraging html?  The default for mm-discouraged-alternatives
   > appears to be nil so you've customized it.  

Ok I changed that variable to nil. Did not help

   > If you have a reason for
   > doing so for most articles but prefer to see the html rendered on
   > occasion you can set gnus-mime-display-multipart-alternative-as-mixed
   > to t, 


I set it to t. Did not help neither.

All the time the message send by gmail (richtext on) arrives
in a way that the original message and gmails reply are *not*
distinguished such as 


   >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:

   >>     This is a test

   >> answer without newline


Since thunderbird displays this correctly, I say this is a
gnus bug.

Re: start of art

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>    > Stop discouraging html?  The default for mm-discouraged-alternatives
>    > appears to be nil so you've customized it.  
>
> Ok I changed that variable to nil. Did not help

Why did you have it set in the first place?

My guess would be that you have other Gnus customisations set that
inhibits Gnus from displaying the text/html parts.  Try starting Emacs
with -q to avoid all customisations.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: start of art

[Uwe Brauer]

>> Regarding Re: start of art; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:

   > My guess would be that you have other Gnus customisations set that
   > inhibits Gnus from displaying the text/html parts.  Try starting Emacs
   > with -q to avoid all customisations.


I did this and no change!

The gmail message still is displayed as (now hitting reply)
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
>
>     This is a test
>
>
> without newline
this of course is wrong!

Can we do an experiment. I write you from my gmail account,
you reply, I reply without newline and you tell me whether
my replay is displayed correctly in your configuration?

Re: start of art

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> I did this and no change!

Do `C-d' on the article and view the text/html part explicitly.  That'll
tell you whether you actually have a usable HTML parser installed.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: start of art

[Uwe Brauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 523 bytes --]

>> Regarding Re: start of art; Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> adds:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> I did this and no change!

   > Do `C-d' on the article and view the text/html part explicitly.  That'll
   > tell you whether you actually have a usable HTML parser installed.

Ok I tried that. The html part 'seems' to be displayed ok
but then when I hit reply the problem I mention is still
there. I attach the three buffers in question.
1.text
2.html
3.reply buffer.

Why not running an experiment?


[-- Attachment #2: article-reply --]
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X-Draft-From: ("nndoc:nnimap+UCM:INBOX-4423" 2)
References: <8762sza0qp.fsf@mat.ucm.es>
	<AANLkTim_3rd5mNGvFcAWtEYyndW24v4UH=1DYcouMEFU@mail.gmail.com>
To: Uwe Brauer <oub.oub.oub@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: test of html
From: Uwe Brauer <oub@gilgamesch.quim.ucm.es>
X-Hashcash: 1:20:110208:oub.oub.oub@gmail.com::YBWt/CI6Bd743mvB:00000000000000000000000000000000000000009FV4
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:02:32 +0100
--text follows this line--
Uwe Brauer <oub.oub.oub@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:
>
>> This is a test of the html option
>>
>> answer without newline
>


[-- Attachment #3: article-text --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 317 bytes --]

From: Uwe Brauer <oub.oub.oub@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: test of html
To: Uwe Brauer <oub.oub.oub@gmail.com>
Cc: Uwe Brauer <uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:35:04 +0100

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:

> This is a test of the html option
>
> answer without newline


[-- Attachment #4: article-html --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 318 bytes --]

From: Uwe Brauer <oub.oub.oub@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: test of html
To: Uwe Brauer <oub.oub.oub@gmail.com>
Cc: Uwe Brauer <uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:35:04 +0100



On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> wrote:

    This is a test of the html option


answer without newline

Re: start of art

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>    > Do `C-d' on the article and view the text/html part explicitly.  That'll
>    > tell you whether you actually have a usable HTML parser installed.
>
> Ok I tried that. The html part 'seems' to be displayed ok
> but then when I hit reply the problem I mention is still
> there.

So you do have a HTML renderer installed, but it's not used by default?
I think it sounds like you have a configuration somewhere that's causing
this. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen