How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Steinar Bang]

Today I wanted to find this one, which I knew was residing as a dormant
article (and thread) in the summary buffer of nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.help:
 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2021-06/msg00854.html

And the only way I found how to do it was to open the nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.help
group with 'C-u 15000 RET', and that is... a bit cumbersome.

A google search found
 https://www.math.utah.edu/docs/info/gnus_5.html#SEC66
and gnus-summary-show-all-dormant, which sounded very much like what I
wanted.

But that command wasn't in my gnus and not in the .el files of that gnus
either (emacs 28 gnus).

So the commands have been removed? Why? Was nobody using them?
(the reason I'm asking is that I would have liked to use them now and
would in the future have used them instead of the C-u <number> trick. I
have lots of gmane groups with old dormant threads)

Thanks!

- Steinar

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

> Today I wanted to find this one, which I knew was residing as a dormant
> article (and thread) in the summary buffer of nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.help:
>  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2021-06/msg00854.html
>
> And the only way I found how to do it was to open the nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.help
> group with 'C-u 15000 RET', and that is... a bit cumbersome.
>
> A google search found
>  https://www.math.utah.edu/docs/info/gnus_5.html#SEC66
> and gnus-summary-show-all-dormant, which sounded very much like what I
> wanted.
>
> But that command wasn't in my gnus and not in the .el files of that gnus
> either (emacs 28 gnus).
>
> So the commands have been removed? Why? Was nobody using them?
> (the reason I'm asking is that I would have liked to use them now and
> would in the future have used them instead of the C-u <number> trick. I
> have lots of gmane groups with old dormant threads)

Does `gnus-summary-insert-dormant-articles' ("Y d") find the article
correctly? I'm not sure if it has to be present in the newsgroup first...

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>:

> Does `gnus-summary-insert-dormant-articles' ("Y d") find the article
> correctly? I'm not sure if it has to be present in the newsgroup first...

'Y d' displayed the old dormant projectile thread in nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.help

Thanks!

(but not obvious to me, based on the function name, what
gnus-summary-insert-dormant-articles does...)

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

>>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>:
>
>> Does `gnus-summary-insert-dormant-articles' ("Y d") find the article
>> correctly? I'm not sure if it has to be present in the newsgroup first...
>
> 'Y d' displayed the old dormant projectile thread in nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.help
>
> Thanks!
>
> (but not obvious to me, based on the function name, what
> gnus-summary-insert-dormant-articles does...)

Yeah, I'm not sure why this naming is better than the old command that
got removed.

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Emanuel Berg]

Steinar Bang wrote:

> Today I wanted to find this one, which I knew was residing
> as a dormant article (and thread) [...]

What is a dormant article?

I never understood the concept.

It is described here, likely:

(info "(gnus) Unread Articles")

http://www.gnu.org/s/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Unread-Articles.html

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>:

> Steinar Bang wrote:
>> Today I wanted to find this one, which I knew was residing
>> as a dormant article (and thread) [...]

> What is a dormant article?

If you use '?' in the summary buffer the article will be hidden next
time you open the summary buffer... unless there has been a reply to the
article, in which case the dormant article(s) will become visibile.

So if you have a thread of dormant articles and there is a reply to the
latest article, the entire thread will become visible when you enter the
Summary buffer.

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

>>>>>> Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>:
>
>> Steinar Bang wrote:
>>> Today I wanted to find this one, which I knew was residing
>>> as a dormant article (and thread) [...]
>
>> What is a dormant article?
>
> If you use '?' in the summary buffer the article will be hidden next
> time you open the summary buffer... unless there has been a reply to the
> article, in which case the dormant article(s) will become visibile.
>
> So if you have a thread of dormant articles and there is a reply to the
> latest article, the entire thread will become visible when you enter the
> Summary buffer.

That seems like the exact behavior you get with plain old read articles,
though, doesn't it? (I also have never really known what "dormant" meant.)

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>:

> That seems like the exact behavior you get with plain old read articles,
> though, doesn't it? (I also have never really known what "dormant" meant.)

Dormant articles stay hidden until you get a reply, so they don't
clutter up your summary buffer the way ticked articles do.

Read articles just stay hidden when you get a reply, you have to use ^
to see the articles replied to.

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:
>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>:

>> That seems like the exact behavior you get with plain old read articles,
>> though, doesn't it? (I also have never really known what "dormant" meant.)

> Dormant articles stay hidden until you get a reply, so they don't
> clutter up your summary buffer the way ticked articles do.

> Read articles just stay hidden when you get a reply, you have to use ^
> to see the articles replied to.

"And why not just use '^'...?" is probably the next question? :-)

Well, I score up my own postings and that means that when a thread
containing my own postings in them get visible because there is a new
reply that "wakes" them, then that thread is scored up and is shown
earlier. 

Re: How to display dormant articles in a summary buffer?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

>>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:
>>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>:
>
>>> That seems like the exact behavior you get with plain old read articles,
>>> though, doesn't it? (I also have never really known what "dormant" meant.)
>
>> Dormant articles stay hidden until you get a reply, so they don't
>> clutter up your summary buffer the way ticked articles do.
>
>> Read articles just stay hidden when you get a reply, you have to use ^
>> to see the articles replied to.
>
> "And why not just use '^'...?" is probably the next question? :-)
>
> Well, I score up my own postings and that means that when a thread
> containing my own postings in them get visible because there is a new
> reply that "wakes" them, then that thread is scored up and is shown
> earlier. 

Okay, interesting -- thanks for the explanation!