folded group view

folded group view

[lee]

Hi,

is it possible to have a "folded" group view? I´ll give an example to
explain what I mean: Let´s say you have the following groups shown in
your group buffer:


bogus
mail.example.good
mail.misc.abc
mail.misc.def
mail.misc.afiaf
mail.misc.asfafmmf
mail.test.local
mail.test.remote
some.other.example.asdfasf
some.other.example.more


That´s an "unfolded" display. With a "folded" display, it would look
like this:


bogus
mail.*
some.*


Now go to the line that shows "mail.*" and unfold the next level of
it. You´d see:


bogus
--------------
mail.example.good
mail.misc.*
mail.test.*
--------------
some.*


Note that it intentionally shows "mail.example.good" instead of
"mail.example.*". If there was also "mail.example.bad", it would show
"mail.example.*", of course. When you unfold "mail.misc.*", you get:


bogus
mail.example.good
--------------
mail.misc.abc
mail.misc.def
mail.misc.afiaf
mail.misc.asfafmmf
--------------
mail.test.*
--------------
some.*


Optionally, all the groups not unfolded could be exempt from being
displayed, so having unfolded two levels of "mail.*", you´d only see it
as a "current hierarchy":


--------------
mail.misc.abc
mail.misc.def
mail.misc.afiaf
mail.misc.asfafmmf
--------------


Some settings about folding could be specified as group-parameters, so
that hierachies can be exempt from being folded and users can specify
what seperator to use. When searching for group names, the groups hidden
in the fold should still be found: think of org-mode ... The seperating
lines are to indicate that either a hierarchy is unfolded or that only
the current hierachy is displayed. Another idea that comes to mind is
"reverse folding" and "partial folding": Reverse folding would operate
with the group names reversed, like "abc.misc.mail" instead of
"mail.misc.abc".

Partial folding would allow you to use arbitrary parts of group names to
fold them on, either specified as windcard strings, or as levels of
hierarchy: If you´d set your partial folding specifier to ".*example.*",
you´d see:


bogus
mail.misc.abc
mail.misc.def
mail.misc.afiaf
mail.misc.asfafmmf
mail.test.local
mail.test.remote
--------------
*.example.*


If you´d set the partial folding specifier to 3, you´d get:


bogus
--------------
mail.example.good
mail.misc.*
some.other.*
some.other.*


Is there anything like this already built in? If not, please consider it
a feature request :)

Re: folded group view

[Tassilo Horn]

lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:

Hi Lee,

> is it possible to have a "folded" group view? I´ll give an example to
> explain what I mean: Let´s say you have the following groups shown in
> your group buffer:

Not exactly what you are looking for, but have a look at topics.

,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Topics") ]
| If you read lots and lots of groups, it might be convenient to group
| them hierarchically according to topics.  You put your Emacs groups over
| here, your sex groups over there, and the rest (what, two groups or so?)
| you put in some misc section that you never bother with anyway.  You can
| even group the Emacs sex groups as a sub-topic to either the Emacs
| groups or the sex groups--or both!  Go wild!
`----

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: folded group view

[lee]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:
>
> Hi Lee,
>
>> is it possible to have a "folded" group view? I´ll give an example to
>> explain what I mean: Let´s say you have the following groups shown in
>> your group buffer:
>
> Not exactly what you are looking for, but have a look at topics.
>
> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Topics") ]

Hmmmmm, ok, this more or less does what I´m looking for, thanks :) It
has the big advantage that it doesn´t depend on group names.

How do I make sure that all groups I have do show up somewhere in the
topics? It´s easy to overlook some when moving them with killing and
yanking them into topics.

Re: folded group view

[Tassilo Horn]

lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:

Hi Lee,

>> Not exactly what you are looking for, but have a look at topics.
>>
>> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Topics") ]
>
> Hmmmmm, ok, this more or less does what I´m looking for, thanks :) It
> has the big advantage that it doesn´t depend on group names.
>
> How do I make sure that all groups I have do show up somewhere in the
> topics? It´s easy to overlook some when moving them with killing and
> yanking them into topics.

Hit `L' in *Group* to show all your subscribed groups including the
groups that don't have unread messages.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: folded group view

[lee]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>> How do I make sure that all groups I have do show up somewhere in the
>> topics? It´s easy to overlook some when moving them with killing and
>> yanking them into topics.
>
> Hit `L' in *Group* to show all your subscribed groups including the
> groups that don't have unread messages.

That only shows the groups that are actually assigned to a topic. When
you enter a topic and kill a group to yank it into another topic and
then get distracted and forget to yank the group, what happens then?

The group isn´t assigned to any topic anymore and won´t show up at all
in topic mode, no matter if you press L or l. Hence my question how you
can make sure that all groups do show up in topic mode.

Re: folded group view

[Tassilo Horn]

lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:

>> Hit `L' in *Group* to show all your subscribed groups including the
>> groups that don't have unread messages.
>
> That only shows the groups that are actually assigned to a topic. When
> you enter a topic and kill a group to yank it into another topic and
> then get distracted and forget to yank the group, what happens then?
>
> The group isn´t assigned to any topic anymore and won´t show up at all
> in topic mode, no matter if you press L or l. Hence my question how you
> can make sure that all groups do show up in topic mode.

Don't they show up in the top-level topic?  Or above the first topic?

Anyway, using `t' you can toggle the topic mode, so that you can kill
your groups in the non-topic mode and yank them in topics.  Does that do
the trick?

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: folded group view

[lee]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:
>
>>> Hit `L' in *Group* to show all your subscribed groups including the
>>> groups that don't have unread messages.
>>
>> That only shows the groups that are actually assigned to a topic. When
>> you enter a topic and kill a group to yank it into another topic and
>> then get distracted and forget to yank the group, what happens then?
>>
>> The group isn´t assigned to any topic anymore and won´t show up at all
>> in topic mode, no matter if you press L or l. Hence my question how you
>> can make sure that all groups do show up in topic mode.
>
> Don't they show up in the top-level topic?  Or above the first topic?

When you kill a group in the topc view, it disappears. When you yank it,
it reappears.

> Anyway, using `t' you can toggle the topic mode, so that you can kill
> your groups in the non-topic mode and yank them in topics.  Does that do
> the trick?

Uh, I don´t know. I need to be very careful with killing groups because
that can have effects on the active file, and I might have to regenerate
the meta data.

It´s not even about getting groups back. It´s about how to make sure
that all the groups I have are being displayed --- and since you can
kill and yank groups in the non-topic view as well, the question extends
to both modes.

Re: folded group view

[Tassilo Horn]

lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:

Hi!

> It´s not even about getting groups back. It´s about how to make sure
> that all the groups I have are being displayed --- and since you can
> kill and yank groups in the non-topic view as well, the question
> extends to both modes.

You get all groups by inserting the *Server* buffer using `^' and
hitting `RET' on a server.  The *Group* buffer only lists groups up to
`gnus-group-default-list-level'.  When you kill a group, it's level is 9
and so it's neither subscribed nor listed anymore.

,----[ (info "(gnus)Group Levels") ]
|    Gnus considers groups from levels 1 to `gnus-level-subscribed'
| (inclusive) (default 5) to be subscribed, `gnus-level-subscribed'
| (exclusive) and `gnus-level-unsubscribed' (inclusive) (default 7) to be
| unsubscribed, `gnus-level-zombie' to be zombies (walking dead) (default
| 8) and `gnus-level-killed' to be killed (completely dead) (default 9).
`----

HTH,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: folded group view

[lee]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:
>
> Hi!
>
>> It´s not even about getting groups back. It´s about how to make sure
>> that all the groups I have are being displayed --- and since you can
>> kill and yank groups in the non-topic view as well, the question
>> extends to both modes.
>
> You get all groups by inserting the *Server* buffer using `^' and
> hitting `RET' on a server.

Hm, well, I´m even seeing groups in a server listed as
"{nnfolder:archive} (opened)" that cannot be accessed. This server
cannot be edited, either. When I kill that server, I´m asked if I want
to kill its groups as well, and when I do that, everything gets messed
up and I have to regenerate the metadata for the nnml server and all my
marks are lost.

Anyway, so you mean I only need to look at the groups listed when
"entering" a server and check for those that are zombies or killed? And
only those don´t show up in the group views?

What actually happens when I kill a group? I´m afraid I might lose the
metadata again. This is a little confusing ...