[ot] spam on ding.

[ot] spam on ding.

[Maciej Matysiak]

hello,

sorry for this offtopic message, but i'm simply annoyed by spam here. we
get more and more junk messages with some cryptic, bad encoded stuff inside.
5 pieces in 5 days is far too much for me. they have the same origin:

 Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66])
           by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08276
           for <ding@hpc.uh.edu>; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:35:20 -0600 (CST)

can anything be done to block them? it seems that anyone can post on ding,
maybe the listowner should close the list, or just moderate posts from not
subscribed posters? or block the sclp3.sclp.com if possible?

thoughts?

 m.m. (sorry for disturbing the peaceful atmosphere)
-- 
 use gnus not guns!

[ot] spam on ding.

[Maciej Matysiak]

hello,

sorry for this offtopic message, but i'm simply annoyed by spam here. we
get more and more junk messages with some cryptic, bad encoded stuff inside.
5 pieces in 5 days is far too much for me. they have the same origin:

 Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66])
           by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08276
           for <ding@hpc.uh.edu>; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:35:20 -0600 (CST)

can anything be done to block them? it seems that anyone can post on ding,
maybe the listowner should close the list, or just moderate posts from not
subscribed posters? or block the sclp3.sclp.com if possible?

thoughts?

 m.m. (sorry for disturbing the peaceful atmosphere)
-- 
 use gnus not guns!

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Jason R. Mastaler]

Maciej Matysiak <phoner@blah.pl> writes:

> can anything be done to block them? it seems that anyone can post on
> ding, maybe the listowner should close the list, or just moderate
> posts from not subscribed posters?

The problem with closing the list is that it makes things very
inconvenient for those who just want to post to ding, but don't want
to subscribe.  Manual moderation of non-subscribed posters is
laborious and results in unnecessary delay for those messages.

Something I've proposed to Lars in the past is using TMDA to protect
the ding list.  The idea is that TMDA intercepts mail sent to
ding@gnus.org, and allows the message through if 1) the sender is
subscribed, or 2) he is on the "whitelist".  Otherwise he confirms his
post and is then automatically added to the whitelist so future posts
go right through.  This is nice because it keeps SPAM off the list
while still allowing legitimate non-members to post without much
hassle.

If you want to see an example of what the confirmation process would
look like for non-subscribers, send a message to <ding-test@gnus.org>
and follow the instructions you get back.  After you confirm that
first message, try sending a second, and notice that you don't have to
confirm again.

> or block the sclp3.sclp.com if possible?

You've misinterpreted the mail headers.  sclp3.sclp.com hosts
gnus.org, so blocking it probably wouldn't be a very good idea.  :-)

-- 
(http://tmda.sourceforge.net/)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Maciej Matysiak]

On the 24th of February 2002 at 02:45, "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015206302.084d51@mastaler.com> wrote:

>> it seems that anyone can post on ding, maybe the listowner should close
>> the list, or just moderate posts from not subscribed posters?
> The problem with closing the list is that it makes things very inconvenient
> for those who just want to post to ding, but don't want to subscribe.

well, yes. maybe lars should make a ding-forum and link the posts to ding
list? (/me grins, ducks & runs ;))

> Manual moderation of non-subscribed posters is laborious and results in
> unnecessary delay for those messages.

configuring gnus is not a matter of life. well, in most cases ;) so one
could wait a while for passing his problem to the list. with few moderators
in different time zones the delay would be short.

> Something I've proposed to Lars in the past is using TMDA to protect
> the ding list.

sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?

>> or block the sclp3.sclp.com if possible?
> You've misinterpreted the mail headers.

ops. call me stupid, but i'm just tired. sorry.

 m.m.
-- 
 use gnus not guns!

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Maciej Matysiak]

On the 24th of February 2002 at 02:45, "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015206302.084d51@mastaler.com> wrote:

>> it seems that anyone can post on ding, maybe the listowner should close
>> the list, or just moderate posts from not subscribed posters?
> The problem with closing the list is that it makes things very inconvenient
> for those who just want to post to ding, but don't want to subscribe.

well, yes. maybe lars should make a ding-forum and link the posts to ding
list? (/me grins, ducks & runs ;))

> Manual moderation of non-subscribed posters is laborious and results in
> unnecessary delay for those messages.

configuring gnus is not a matter of life. well, in most cases ;) so one
could wait a while for passing his problem to the list. with few moderators
in different time zones the delay would be short.

> Something I've proposed to Lars in the past is using TMDA to protect
> the ding list.

sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?

>> or block the sclp3.sclp.com if possible?
> You've misinterpreted the mail headers.

ops. call me stupid, but i'm just tired. sorry.

 m.m.
-- 
 use gnus not guns!

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Jason R. Mastaler]

Maciej Matysiak <phoner@blah.pl> writes:

> configuring gnus is not a matter of life. well, in most cases ;) so
> one could wait a while for passing his problem to the list. with few
> moderators in different time zones the delay would be short.

I suppose, but this isn't necessary when it's easier/faster to do it
through software.

> sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?

I think Lars derives satisfaction from canceling SPAM off the news
server.  :-)

-- 
(http://tmda.sourceforge.net/)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Maciej Matysiak]

On the 24th of February 2002 at 05:16, "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015215420.8e8b50@mastaler.com> wrote:

>> configuring gnus is not a matter of life. well, in most cases ;) so
>> one could wait a while for passing his problem to the list. with few
>> moderators in different time zones the delay would be short.
> I suppose, but this isn't necessary when it's easier/faster to do it
> through software.

i don't mind your solution. i'd like to see some action against spammers
here, yesterday we got another 3 'interesting offers'.

>> sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?
> I think Lars derives satisfaction from canceling SPAM off the news
> server.  :-)

that's not good solution, because you see the spam anyways. and then we
have junk messages in list archives (which can be deleted, but that's another
waste of someone's resources).

 m.m. (no smileys were killed in this mail)
-- 
 use gnus not guns!

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Maciej Matysiak]

On the 24th of February 2002 at 05:16, "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015215420.8e8b50@mastaler.com> wrote:

>> configuring gnus is not a matter of life. well, in most cases ;) so
>> one could wait a while for passing his problem to the list. with few
>> moderators in different time zones the delay would be short.
> I suppose, but this isn't necessary when it's easier/faster to do it
> through software.

i don't mind your solution. i'd like to see some action against spammers
here, yesterday we got another 3 'interesting offers'.

>> sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?
> I think Lars derives satisfaction from canceling SPAM off the news
> server.  :-)

that's not good solution, because you see the spam anyways. and then we
have junk messages in list archives (which can be deleted, but that's another
waste of someone's resources).

 m.m. (no smileys were killed in this mail)
-- 
 use gnus not guns!

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Daniel Pittman]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Maciej Matysiak wrote:
> On the 24th of February 2002 at 05:16, "Jason R. Mastaler"
> <jason-dated-1015215420.8e8b50@mastaler.com> wrote:

[...]

>>> sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?
>> I think Lars derives satisfaction from canceling SPAM off the news
>> server.  :-)
> 
> that's not good solution, because you see the spam anyways. and then
> we have junk messages in list archives (which can be deleted, but
> that's another waste of someone's resources).

You might consider using a personal solution to the problem such as TDMA[1]
or SpamAssassin[2] to filter your personal email for SPAM before it
reaches you.

I use SpamAssassin myself and find it quite effective. I don't block
based on it's results but, if you wish, it can be configured to reject
mail as early as the SMTP transaction, should you chose it.

This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights out
of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical challenge to
prove my identity by ignoring it.

Not to mention the advantage in terms of keeping the mailing list open
to posters who are not subscribed which, I note, have included some
fairly key XEmacs and Emacs people who contributed very valuable
analysis and design.

        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  Which may or may not be able to do much for you; I don't really know.

[2]  <http://spamassassin.taint.org/>

-- 
Poets and such persons talk about the public as if it were some enormous and
abnormal monster-a huge hybrid between the cow they milk and the dragon that
drinks their blood.
        -- G. K. Chesterton

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Daniel Pittman]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Maciej Matysiak wrote:
> On the 24th of February 2002 at 05:16, "Jason R. Mastaler"
> <jason-dated-1015215420.8e8b50@mastaler.com> wrote:

[...]

>>> sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?
>> I think Lars derives satisfaction from canceling SPAM off the news
>> server.  :-)
> 
> that's not good solution, because you see the spam anyways. and then
> we have junk messages in list archives (which can be deleted, but
> that's another waste of someone's resources).

You might consider using a personal solution to the problem such as TDMA[1]
or SpamAssassin[2] to filter your personal email for SPAM before it
reaches you.

I use SpamAssassin myself and find it quite effective. I don't block
based on it's results but, if you wish, it can be configured to reject
mail as early as the SMTP transaction, should you chose it.

This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights out
of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical challenge to
prove my identity by ignoring it.

Not to mention the advantage in terms of keeping the mailing list open
to posters who are not subscribed which, I note, have included some
fairly key XEmacs and Emacs people who contributed very valuable
analysis and design.

        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  Which may or may not be able to do much for you; I don't really know.

[2]  <http://spamassassin.taint.org/>

-- 
Poets and such persons talk about the public as if it were some enormous and
abnormal monster-a huge hybrid between the cow they milk and the dragon that
drinks their blood.
        -- G. K. Chesterton

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Per Abrahamsen]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights out
> of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical challenge to
> prove my identity by ignoring it.

So you don't subscribe to mailing lists anymore?  They all require a
confirmation these days.  It is the same that is being suggested
should be required for non-subscribers the first time the post to the
list.

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Per Abrahamsen]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights out
> of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical challenge to
> prove my identity by ignoring it.

So you don't subscribe to mailing lists anymore?  They all require a
confirmation these days.  It is the same that is being suggested
should be required for non-subscribers the first time the post to the
list.

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Simon Josefsson]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> So you don't subscribe to mailing lists anymore?  They all require a
> confirmation these days.  It is the same that is being suggested
> should be required for non-subscribers the first time the post to the
> list.

This last idea is a good one IMHO, and I think it is on Mailman's todo 
list.  Maybe one day we'll see it... (and maybe one day Mailman stops 
spaming me every month)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Simon Josefsson]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> So you don't subscribe to mailing lists anymore?  They all require a
> confirmation these days.  It is the same that is being suggested
> should be required for non-subscribers the first time the post to the
> list.

This last idea is a good one IMHO, and I think it is on Mailman's todo 
list.  Maybe one day we'll see it... (and maybe one day Mailman stops 
spaming me every month)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Paul Jarc]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> wrote:
> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights out
> of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical challenge to
> prove my identity by ignoring it.

If the challenge is mechanical, why not let the response be as well?
<URL:http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail&m=101190365603092&w=2>
(This particular package isn't immediately usable with any lists
except those at list.cr.yp.to, but it coud be adapted for others
easily enough, I think.)


paul

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Paul Jarc]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> wrote:
> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights out
> of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical challenge to
> prove my identity by ignoring it.

If the challenge is mechanical, why not let the response be as well?
<URL:http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail&m=101190365603092&w=2>
(This particular package isn't immediately usable with any lists
except those at list.cr.yp.to, but it coud be adapted for others
easily enough, I think.)


paul

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Jason R. Mastaler]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights
> out of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical
> challenge to prove my identity by ignoring it.

Well, you won't need to do this since you are subscribed to the
mailing list.  And for most, hitting "Reply" a single time on a
confirmation message is not very irritating.

-- 
(http://tmda.sourceforge.net/)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Jason R. Mastaler]

Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:

> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights
> out of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical
> challenge to prove my identity by ignoring it.

Well, you won't need to do this since you are subscribed to the
mailing list.  And for most, hitting "Reply" a single time on a
confirmation message is not very irritating.

-- 
(http://tmda.sourceforge.net/)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Daniel Pittman]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Jason R. Mastaler wrote:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
> 
>> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights
>> out of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical
>> challenge to prove my identity by ignoring it.
> 
> Well, you won't need to do this since you are subscribed to the
> mailing list.  

*nod*  

> And for most, hitting "Reply" a single time on a confirmation message
> is not very irritating.

Depends on your point of view. For mailing list subscription it's not
that bad and, given that I misunderstood the proposal at first, no worse
to have that automatically sent when a non-member tries to post.[1]

For individuals demanding proof of identity, especially when they have
requested help from the world at large, it's much more irritating.

But, for this list, /if/ it's a one-time-only thing, it wouldn't be that
bad, and better than asking outside developers to subscribe just because
they happened to be CC-ed in a discussion that was on-list.

        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  I thought, earlier, that this would be for /each/ message sent by
     the poster to the list. My bad.

-- 
[It's said that hallucinogenic drugs give insight] 
But just what kind of insight are we talking about here? Are we talking about
the Second Law of Thermodynamics? Or are we talking about "Oh wow, like, I
finally realized that, deep down inside, I'm me."?
        -- P.J. O'Rourke

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Daniel Pittman]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Jason R. Mastaler wrote:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> writes:
> 
>> This also has the advantage of not irritating the living daylights
>> out of some people, such as myself, who respond to a mechanical
>> challenge to prove my identity by ignoring it.
> 
> Well, you won't need to do this since you are subscribed to the
> mailing list.  

*nod*  

> And for most, hitting "Reply" a single time on a confirmation message
> is not very irritating.

Depends on your point of view. For mailing list subscription it's not
that bad and, given that I misunderstood the proposal at first, no worse
to have that automatically sent when a non-member tries to post.[1]

For individuals demanding proof of identity, especially when they have
requested help from the world at large, it's much more irritating.

But, for this list, /if/ it's a one-time-only thing, it wouldn't be that
bad, and better than asking outside developers to subscribe just because
they happened to be CC-ed in a discussion that was on-list.

        Daniel

Footnotes: 
[1]  I thought, earlier, that this would be for /each/ message sent by
     the poster to the list. My bad.

-- 
[It's said that hallucinogenic drugs give insight] 
But just what kind of insight are we talking about here? Are we talking about
the Second Law of Thermodynamics? Or are we talking about "Oh wow, like, I
finally realized that, deep down inside, I'm me."?
        -- P.J. O'Rourke

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Jason R. Mastaler]

Maciej Matysiak <phoner@blah.pl> writes:

> configuring gnus is not a matter of life. well, in most cases ;) so
> one could wait a while for passing his problem to the list. with few
> moderators in different time zones the delay would be short.

I suppose, but this isn't necessary when it's easier/faster to do it
through software.

> sounds reasonable for me. what was lars' opinion?

I think Lars derives satisfaction from canceling SPAM off the news
server.  :-)

-- 
(http://tmda.sourceforge.net/)

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015206302.084d51@mastaler.com>  on Sat, 23 Feb 2002
| The problem with closing the list is that it makes things very
| inconvenient for those who just want to post to ding, but don't want
| to subscribe.

Too bad.  That whole "please reply to me as I'm not on the list" thing is
more obnoxious than I could ever be.  If they're too lazy to subscribe to
the list then that's just too damned bad.

Besides, they should be using gnu.emacs.gnus for that.
-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ 
       That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015206302.084d51@mastaler.com>  on Sat, 23 Feb 2002
| The problem with closing the list is that it makes things very
| inconvenient for those who just want to post to ding, but don't want
| to subscribe.

Too bad.  That whole "please reply to me as I'm not on the list" thing is
more obnoxious than I could ever be.  If they're too lazy to subscribe to
the list then that's just too damned bad.

Besides, they should be using gnu.emacs.gnus for that.
-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ 
       That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

"Jason R. Mastaler" <jason-dated-1015206302.084d51@mastaler.com> writes:

> Something I've proposed to Lars in the past is using TMDA to protect
> the ding list.  The idea is that TMDA intercepts mail sent to
> ding@gnus.org, and allows the message through if 1) the sender is
> subscribed, or 2) he is on the "whitelist".

I think that's probably getting to be the best solution, these days.

Do any mailing list packages support that now?  I'd guess that
Mailman is the most likely suspect...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Michael Shields]

In article <m3k7howac8.fsf@quimbies.gnus.org>,
Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
> Do any mailing list packages support that now?  I'd guess that
> Mailman is the most likely suspect...

I don't see why would need much special support from the mailing list
manager; TMDA just needs access to the subscriber list as an external
file to use as a whitelist.
-- 
Shields.

Re: [ot] spam on ding.

[Jason R. Mastaler]

Maciej Matysiak <phoner@blah.pl> writes:

> can anything be done to block them? it seems that anyone can post on
> ding, maybe the listowner should close the list, or just moderate
> posts from not subscribed posters?

The problem with closing the list is that it makes things very
inconvenient for those who just want to post to ding, but don't want
to subscribe.  Manual moderation of non-subscribed posters is
laborious and results in unnecessary delay for those messages.

Something I've proposed to Lars in the past is using TMDA to protect
the ding list.  The idea is that TMDA intercepts mail sent to
ding@gnus.org, and allows the message through if 1) the sender is
subscribed, or 2) he is on the "whitelist".  Otherwise he confirms his
post and is then automatically added to the whitelist so future posts
go right through.  This is nice because it keeps SPAM off the list
while still allowing legitimate non-members to post without much
hassle.

If you want to see an example of what the confirmation process would
look like for non-subscribers, send a message to <ding-test@gnus.org>
and follow the instructions you get back.  After you confirm that
first message, try sending a second, and notice that you don't have to
confirm again.

> or block the sclp3.sclp.com if possible?

You've misinterpreted the mail headers.  sclp3.sclp.com hosts
gnus.org, so blocking it probably wouldn't be a very good idea.  :-)

-- 
(http://tmda.sourceforge.net/)