Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Harry Putnam]

I'll probably get a good flaming for this, but I wondered if there are
any experienced Exmh/Nmh users here who could answer this question.

I'm looking for some kind of interface that will be a little more
fleetfooted in massive mail/news groups.  In my experience and without
major tweaking or the like, I've found gnus to be poorly suited for
very large groups.  Even just a few thousand messages (under 4,000)
seems to be really very slow going with gnus, and I'm talking more
like 8-12 thousand.  

I don't really use these large groups like regular newsgroups and
mostly access them with search tools of one kind or another.  But I'd
also like some kind of mail/news like interface at times, and it is
just too nerve wracking trying to do that with gnus.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, I wondered if nmh or exhm combo would
offer somekind of interface that was a little speedier.  Can either or
both be used to access `foreign' groups?  Like my nnml like groups?

I don't really want to set these tools up like real mcCoy mail
readers, I just want to use what ever they have to offer in the way of
accessing these massive groups.

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Kai Großjohann]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Anyway, cutting to the chase, I wondered if nmh or exhm combo would
> offer somekind of interface that was a little speedier.  Can either or
> both be used to access `foreign' groups?  Like my nnml like groups?

Since the nnml format is upward-compatible with MH, all MH tools can
be used to read nnml format directories.  (Give or take subtleties
such as "unseen" lists.)  But be careful not to write to the
directories, lest Gnus gets confused.  (If you still want to use Gnus
sometimes, that is.)

kai
-- 
~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn    (Frank Nobis)

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Harry Putnam]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> Anyway, cutting to the chase, I wondered if nmh or exhm combo would
>> offer somekind of interface that was a little speedier.  Can either or
>> both be used to access `foreign' groups?  Like my nnml like groups?
>
> Since the nnml format is upward-compatible with MH, all MH tools can
> be used to read nnml format directories.  (Give or take subtleties
> such as "unseen" lists.)  But be careful not to write to the
> directories, lest Gnus gets confused.  (If you still want to use Gnus
> sometimes, that is.)

How about the nntp format? Gnus handles that completely transparently
as if they were nnml.  Can I infer then, that nmh will also handle
nntp style messages with the same ease?  Any clues on commands the nmh
would use to access such a group?

I did scan thru the documentation that comes with the nmh package, but
that isn't the kind of thing that would be discussed right off for a
normal user.

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[David S. Goldberg]

I haven't used nmh, but I did you MH, it's predecessor for many years.
I would use GNUS (Gnus' predecessor) to read news and mh-e (MH
front-end that probably works with nmh too) for email.  I could save
nntp messages from GNUS into MH folders by piping them into a program
that I think was called rcvstore (didn't appear to do much to headers
or anything, just made sure that the file name was chosen properly and
MH's internal files were updated).  I've since moved to Gnus for both
mail and news and have no difficulties accessing those messages
(now stored in nnml folders).  I have had to muck with headers a bit
if I want to copy them to an nnimap folder but that's because our IMAP
server is picky.

hth,
-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[David S. Goldberg]

I haven't used nmh, but I did you MH, it's predecessor for many years.
I would use GNUS (Gnus' predecessor) to read news and mh-e (MH
front-end that probably works with nmh too) for email.  I could save
nntp messages from GNUS into MH folders by piping them into a program
that I think was called rcvstore (didn't appear to do much to headers
or anything, just made sure that the file name was chosen properly and
MH's internal files were updated).  I've since moved to Gnus for both
mail and news and have no difficulties accessing those messages
(now stored in nnml folders).  I have had to muck with headers a bit
if I want to copy them to an nnimap folder but that's because our IMAP
server is picky.

hth,
-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Kai Großjohann]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> How about the nntp format? Gnus handles that completely transparently
> as if they were nnml.  Can I infer then, that nmh will also handle
> nntp style messages with the same ease?  Any clues on commands the nmh
> would use to access such a group?

Well, nntp is a protocol.  (Do "telnet some-nntp-host 119" to see
which kind of protocol.)  Speaking this protocol is different than
reading files.

But news servers often store their stuff in "news spool" format, and
Gnus provides nnspool to read this directly.  The news spool format
is MH with some additions, it is very similar to nnml.

kai
-- 
~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn    (Frank Nobis)

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Kai Großjohann]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> How about the nntp format? Gnus handles that completely transparently
> as if they were nnml.  Can I infer then, that nmh will also handle
> nntp style messages with the same ease?  Any clues on commands the nmh
> would use to access such a group?

Well, nntp is a protocol.  (Do "telnet some-nntp-host 119" to see
which kind of protocol.)  Speaking this protocol is different than
reading files.

But news servers often store their stuff in "news spool" format, and
Gnus provides nnspool to read this directly.  The news spool format
is MH with some additions, it is very similar to nnml.

kai
-- 
~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn    (Frank Nobis)

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Harry Putnam]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> Anyway, cutting to the chase, I wondered if nmh or exhm combo would
>> offer somekind of interface that was a little speedier.  Can either or
>> both be used to access `foreign' groups?  Like my nnml like groups?
>
> Since the nnml format is upward-compatible with MH, all MH tools can
> be used to read nnml format directories.  (Give or take subtleties
> such as "unseen" lists.)  But be careful not to write to the
> directories, lest Gnus gets confused.  (If you still want to use Gnus
> sometimes, that is.)

How about the nntp format? Gnus handles that completely transparently
as if they were nnml.  Can I infer then, that nmh will also handle
nntp style messages with the same ease?  Any clues on commands the nmh
would use to access such a group?

I did scan thru the documentation that comes with the nmh package, but
that isn't the kind of thing that would be discussed right off for a
normal user.

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Kai Großjohann]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Anyway, cutting to the chase, I wondered if nmh or exhm combo would
> offer somekind of interface that was a little speedier.  Can either or
> both be used to access `foreign' groups?  Like my nnml like groups?

Since the nnml format is upward-compatible with MH, all MH tools can
be used to read nnml format directories.  (Give or take subtleties
such as "unseen" lists.)  But be careful not to write to the
directories, lest Gnus gets confused.  (If you still want to use Gnus
sometimes, that is.)

kai
-- 
~/.signature is: umop 3p!sdn    (Frank Nobis)

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Michal Maruška]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> I'm looking for some kind of interface that will be a little more
> fleetfooted in massive mail/news groups.  In my experience and without
> major tweaking or the like, I've found gnus to be poorly suited for
> very large groups.  Even just a few thousand messages (under 4,000)

i think i have got the same problem.  Do you mean you would want to store the
headers in a (SQL) database and have the ordering(+threading) done by the DB
backend?

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Michal Maruška]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> I'm looking for some kind of interface that will be a little more
> fleetfooted in massive mail/news groups.  In my experience and without
> major tweaking or the like, I've found gnus to be poorly suited for
> very large groups.  Even just a few thousand messages (under 4,000)

i think i have got the same problem.  Do you mean you would want to store the
headers in a (SQL) database and have the ordering(+threading) done by the DB
backend?

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Harry Putnam]

mmc@maruska.dyndns.org (Michal Maru¹ka) writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> I'm looking for some kind of interface that will be a little more
>> fleetfooted in massive mail/news groups.  In my experience and without
>> major tweaking or the like, I've found gnus to be poorly suited for
>> very large groups.  Even just a few thousand messages (under 4,000)
>
> i think i have got the same problem.  Do you mean you would want to store the
> headers in a (SQL) database and have the ordering(+threading) done by the DB
> backend?

I never really thought about trying something like that.  Sounds like
it would be smart way to go.  But a trifle complicated.

I was just speaking of trying some kind of tool, maybe nmh, that
doesn't try to do so much.  But only in large groups, because most of
the time I want all gnus goodies.

Re: Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Harry Putnam]

mmc@maruska.dyndns.org (Michal Maru¹ka) writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> I'm looking for some kind of interface that will be a little more
>> fleetfooted in massive mail/news groups.  In my experience and without
>> major tweaking or the like, I've found gnus to be poorly suited for
>> very large groups.  Even just a few thousand messages (under 4,000)
>
> i think i have got the same problem.  Do you mean you would want to store the
> headers in a (SQL) database and have the ordering(+threading) done by the DB
> backend?

I never really thought about trying something like that.  Sounds like
it would be smart way to go.  But a trifle complicated.

I was just speaking of trying some kind of tool, maybe nmh, that
doesn't try to do so much.  But only in large groups, because most of
the time I want all gnus goodies.

Any Exmh/nmh buffs in the house?

[Harry Putnam]

I'll probably get a good flaming for this, but I wondered if there are
any experienced Exmh/Nmh users here who could answer this question.

I'm looking for some kind of interface that will be a little more
fleetfooted in massive mail/news groups.  In my experience and without
major tweaking or the like, I've found gnus to be poorly suited for
very large groups.  Even just a few thousand messages (under 4,000)
seems to be really very slow going with gnus, and I'm talking more
like 8-12 thousand.  

I don't really use these large groups like regular newsgroups and
mostly access them with search tools of one kind or another.  But I'd
also like some kind of mail/news like interface at times, and it is
just too nerve wracking trying to do that with gnus.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, I wondered if nmh or exhm combo would
offer somekind of interface that was a little speedier.  Can either or
both be used to access `foreign' groups?  Like my nnml like groups?

I don't really want to set these tools up like real mcCoy mail
readers, I just want to use what ever they have to offer in the way of
accessing these massive groups.