Re: Gnus v5.4.62 is released

[Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr>]

Jens Lautenbacher <jens@metrix.de> writes:

> > Logical behaviour includes not creating a 100K or so .newsrc.eld
> > by default.
> 
> I beg to differ. from the beginners point it's still a bit difficult
> to set up a gnus environment.

Exactly.  Which is why Gnus should provide the most palatable
behaviour by default.  And I still think this category includes /not/
creating 100K+ .newsrc.eld by default.

> Looking at other news readers (blasphemy, I know) I can simply list
> all the groups and enter them.

You can do it in Gnus, too.  Commands like `10 A T' will connect to
the server, get the list of groups and list them.  I don't need the
list every day.  And a beginner certainly doesn't need it in his
.newsrc.eld -- by default.

> But it's extremely non-logical if suddenly I can't access the whole
> feed anymore (...)

Sure you can -- see above.

> -- and even at a fast scientific internet access with a fast computer
> it still takes damned long to load the whole active file from the
> server.

That's what all these others newsreaders do, in case you didn't know.

> Besides that a newbie will not know what to do, and will switch to
> tin after 5 minutes without getting what he wants (yeah yeah, RTFM,
> I know. _I_ do, but we all know our users).

And tin will do the exact same thing.

> The thousands of different listing/loading/browsing commands don't
> help either, as they are layed out in a totally flat way: there is
> no "hirarchy" build of them with "general" commands which do the
> right thing most of the time and "expert" commands,
> unfortunately. Even the menu doesn't suggest such a hirarchy.

Feel free to suggest a better layout of commands.  I am sure Lars
would be happy to make Gnus equally usable to a totall dummy-type
beginner as well as RSI-prone-10-keys-per-second-control-meta-alt
expert.

> Conclusion: Follow the principle of least surprise,

I sounds like a broken record, but I'll say it again: the principle of
least surprise includes not creating giant files by default.  If
necessary, the manual should be updated to explain the available
commands better.

If a person doesn't want to even glance at the manual, he'll be better
off with tin anyway.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
"Psychos _do not_ explode when sunlight hits them."