* text/html rendering with bg color is strange
@ 1998-11-02 13:09 Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-17 0:44 ` Mike McEwan
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kai.Grossjohann @ 1998-11-02 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 496 bytes --]
I sometimes look at text/html messages with <BODY BGCOLOR="...">.
When looking at these in Gnus, I see that most of the *Article* buffer
is the default grey, only where there is text is the BGCOLOR applied.
When using `O b' to save that very same message to a file then using
M-x w3-open-local RET to look at it, all of the buffer has the
background color specified in BGCOLOR.
What gives? Do you also see this behavior?
Example attached.
kai
--
Life is hard and then you die.
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From: "Anant Jhingran" <anant@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: (DBWORLD) CFP: First IAC Workshop on Negotiations
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<H2>
<FONT SIZE=+3>First IAC Workshop on Internet Based Negotiation Technologies</FONT></H2></CENTER>
<CENTER><I><FONT SIZE=+2>Sponsored by the IBM Institute for Advanced Commerce</FONT></I></CENTER>
<CENTER><FONT SIZE=+2>March 18-19, 1999</FONT></CENTER>
<CENTER><FONT SIZE=+2>Yorktown Heights, NY</FONT></CENTER>
<CENTER>
<H3>
<I><FONT SIZE=+3><A HREF="http://www.ibm.com/iac">Call For Papers</A></FONT></I></H3></CENTER>
Goods and services are exchanged between trading parties using a variety
of trading models. The popular ones in existence today are fixed price
selling, bilateral and multilateral negotiations, auctions and sealed bid
based procurement, and brokerages. All of these forms are appearing as
services on the Internet (e.g., Priceline.com, Onsale.com, EBay, FastParts
etc.) The Internet dramatically reduces certain types of frictional costs
and time (opportunity costs) incurred in concluding a trade in the different
trading models. The Internet also changes the discovery costs as web sites
and search engines allow traders around the globe to locate potential trading
partners. As a result, not only will certain types of traditional auctions,
brokerages, and bilateral/multilateral negotiations move to the Internet,
many uses of fixed price trading today may convert to negotiated price
trading on the Internet.
<P>Several technical and business issues must be addressed in order to
make negotiations ubiquitous. This workshop aims at bringing together researchers,
developers, and business people, who are shaping the future of Internet
based trade negotiations. We invite short papers and work-in-progress reports
on the following topics or closely related topics:
<UL type=disc>
<LI>
Negotiation mechanisms, especially new forms of auctions, brokerages and
marketplaces</LI>
<LI>
Applications facilitated by Internet-based negotiations (e.g., procurement,
liquidation)</LI>
<LI>
Security, authentication, trust, and access control issues.</LI>
<LI>
Software issues, including changes in the business processes in their software
analogues, and robustness (scalability, responsiveness, interoperability,
and availability).</LI>
<LI>
The roles and business models of negotiations through intermediaries</LI>
<LI>
Legal, regulatory, and auditability issues.</LI>
<LI>
Matchmaking across several dimensions (not just price).</LI>
<LI>
Standards and their roles in multiparty interactions.</LI>
<LI>
Agent-based negotiations.</LI>
</UL>
<B>Accepted papers and work-in-progress reports will be distributed in
a workshop proceedings and their full-paper version will be considered
for publication in a special issue on E-Commerce in the Decision Support
Systems journal.</B>
<H3>
Organizing Committee:</H3>
General Chair: Anant Jhingran, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
<BR>Local Arrangements: Sunil Noronha, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
<H3>
Program Committee:</H3>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<LI>
Program Chair: Manoj Kumar, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center</LI>
<LI>
Committee Members:</LI>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<LI>
Arie Segev, University of California, Berkeley</LI>
<LI>
Shyam Sunder, Carnegie Mellon University</LI>
<LI>
Michael Wellman, University of Michigan</LI>
<LI>
Andrew Whinston, University of Texas at Austin</LI>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<H3>
Submissions Guideline:</H3>
Short papers and work-in-progress reports should be approximately 8 pages.
They are due by <B>February</B> <B>5, 1999</B>. Authors planning to submit
papers or work-in progress reports are requested to notify the program
committee chair of their intent by <B>January 5, 1999</B>. Paper submissions
should be mailed to:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Manoj Kumar
<BR>H2-D44, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
<BR>PO Box 704
<BR>Yorktown Heights, NY 10598-0704</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>Electronic submissions: PostScript, Acrobat PDF, Lotus Wordpro, Microsoft
Word, HTML, or ASCII text files can be mailed to: <I>mkumar@watson.ibm.com</I>:
<BR>Telephone inquires: Manoj Kumar +1-914-784-7600.
<BR>Fax inquires: +1-914-784-6079.
<H3>
Registration:</H3>
There are no conference fees but space is limited. All attendees should
submit a one page position statement to the program committee chair along
with the registration form by March 1, 1999. The mailing address and acceptable
electronic formats are the same as those specified for paper submissions
above. The conference attendance is limited to registered participants.
Local arrangedment details will be made available on the conference web
site.
<H3>
Important dates:</H3>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B><FONT SIZE=+0>Notification of intent to submit: January
5, 1999.</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=+0>Full paper submission deadline: February. 5, 1999.</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=+0>Acceptance decision: February 23, 1999.</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=+0>Position paper deadline: March 1, 1999.</FONT></B></BLOCKQUOTE>
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[-- Attachment #2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 6011 bytes --]
From: "Anant Jhingran" <anant@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: (DBWORLD) CFP: First IAC Workshop on Negotiations
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:48:23 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199810302048.OAA05766@cgi.cs.wisc.edu>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-02 13:09 text/html rendering with bg color is strange Kai.Grossjohann
@ 1998-11-17 0:44 ` Mike McEwan
1998-11-17 8:42 ` Kai.Grossjohann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Mike McEwan @ 1998-11-17 0:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE writes:
> I sometimes look at text/html messages with <BODY BGCOLOR="...">.
> When looking at these in Gnus, I see that most of the *Article* buffer
> is the default grey, only where there is text is the BGCOLOR applied.
> When using `O b' to save that very same message to a file then using
> M-x w3-open-local RET to look at it, all of the buffer has the
> background color specified in BGCOLOR.
>
> What gives? Do you also see this behavior?
I'm still seeing this at pgnus-0.48. I guess all the details are
there, but it looks fragmented. I'd prefer a uniform background, if
we're at all concerned with the aesthetics.
--
Mike.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-17 0:44 ` Mike McEwan
@ 1998-11-17 8:42 ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-17 15:03 ` Colin Rafferty
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kai.Grossjohann @ 1998-11-17 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
Mike McEwan <mike@lotusland.demon.co.uk> writes:
> [...] I'd prefer a uniform background, if we're at all concerned
> with the aesthetics. [...]
Even if all of the message is text/html, there's still the headers.
Apparently it is not possible to change the bg color of part of a
buffer -- it's either change the bg color of all of the buffer, or of
a face.
Coming to think about it, maybe a variable
gnus-article-html-ignore-bg-color would be nice.
kai
--
Life is hard and then you die.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-17 8:42 ` Kai.Grossjohann
@ 1998-11-17 15:03 ` Colin Rafferty
1998-11-17 16:44 ` Kai.Grossjohann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Colin Rafferty @ 1998-11-17 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
Kai Grossjohann writes:
> Coming to think about it, maybe a variable
> gnus-article-html-ignore-bg-color would be nice.
(setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-17 15:03 ` Colin Rafferty
@ 1998-11-17 16:44 ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-18 0:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kai.Grossjohann @ 1998-11-17 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
Colin Rafferty <craffert@ms.com> writes:
> (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t)
Didn't know this existed. Maybe one wants a different value of
*Article* buffers?
kai
--
Life is hard and then you die.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-17 16:44 ` Kai.Grossjohann
@ 1998-11-18 0:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-18 0:38 ` William M. Perry
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-11-18 0:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE writes:
> > (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t)
>
> Didn't know this existed. Maybe one wants a different value of
> *Article* buffers?
I'm not sure. It's not unreasonable to do so, but I would imagine
that sometimes it would be nice to have HTML decide what colors should
be there as well..
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-18 0:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 1998-11-18 0:38 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-18 1:18 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: William M. Perry @ 1998-11-18 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE writes:
>
> > > (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t)
> >
> > Didn't know this existed. Maybe one wants a different value of
> > *Article* buffers?
>
> I'm not sure. It's not unreasonable to do so, but I would imagine
> that sometimes it would be nice to have HTML decide what colors should
> be there as well..
Ohhh oohh! Me Me... what if GNUs could force it's own CSS stylesheet
down the throat of all HTML documents that are rendered in it's windows! :)
And yes, that is possible. :)
-Bill P.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-18 0:38 ` William M. Perry
@ 1998-11-18 1:18 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-18 2:02 ` William M. Perry
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-11-18 1:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
> Ohhh oohh! Me Me... what if GNUs could force it's own CSS stylesheet
> down the throat of all HTML documents that are rendered in it's windows! :)
:-)
But there is a problem with the background colors. Say, for instance,
that we have a multipart/mixed with some HTML parts, and these parts
set background color. Then most parts will have the normal
background, and the HTML parts will have the specified color only
under the characters rendered, and this looks kinda, well, butt-ugly.
So it wouldn't be unreasonable to override the background color there,
but if we override the background color, then we have to override the
foreground color, and before we know it, we have a totally colorless
HTML display, which is something that we don't want...
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-18 1:18 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 1998-11-18 2:02 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-18 8:27 ` Kai.Grossjohann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: William M. Perry @ 1998-11-18 2:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
>
> > Ohhh oohh! Me Me... what if GNUs could force it's own CSS stylesheet
> > down the throat of all HTML documents that are rendered in it's windows! :)
>
> :-)
>
> But there is a problem with the background colors. Say, for instance,
> that we have a multipart/mixed with some HTML parts, and these parts set
> background color. Then most parts will have the normal background, and
> the HTML parts will have the specified color only under the characters
> rendered, and this looks kinda, well, butt-ugly.
Yup, the problem is that XEmacs doesn't draw the attribute of the last
character on a line all the way across the screen, which I think is icky.
But better than drawing underlines all the way acroos when you don't need
to (like Emacs does).
> So it wouldn't be unreasonable to override the background color there,
> but if we override the background color, then we have to override the
> foreground color, and before we know it, we have a totally colorless HTML
> display, which is something that we don't want...
Yup. Kinda. Maybe. I like a drab colorless world, or maybe I'm just
still stick in the seattle mindset after being there for a week. :)
-Bill P.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-18 2:02 ` William M. Perry
@ 1998-11-18 8:27 ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-18 15:28 ` William M. Perry
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Kai.Grossjohann @ 1998-11-18 8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
> Yup, the problem is that XEmacs doesn't draw the attribute of the
> last character on a line all the way across the screen, which I
> think is icky.
The `problem' occurs with Emacs, too. Get a multipart/mixed with a
text/html part which sets the bg color. The bg color will only be
used where there are characters, and not from end of line to the right
edge of the window.
kai
--
Life is hard and then you die.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-18 8:27 ` Kai.Grossjohann
@ 1998-11-18 15:28 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-19 2:12 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: William M. Perry @ 1998-11-18 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE writes:
> wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
>
> > Yup, the problem is that XEmacs doesn't draw the attribute of the
> > last character on a line all the way across the screen, which I
> > think is icky.
>
> The `problem' occurs with Emacs, too. Get a multipart/mixed with a
> text/html part which sets the bg color. The bg color will only be used
> where there are characters, and not from end of line to the right edge of
> the window.
Hmmm... I used to do fixups so that I _wouldnt_ allow properties to go
over the window edge... I can't seem to find the code though. I'll have to
meditate on it.
-Bill P.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-18 15:28 ` William M. Perry
@ 1998-11-19 2:12 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-19 11:26 ` Hrvoje Niksic
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-11-19 2:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
> Hmmm... I used to do fixups so that I _wouldnt_ allow properties to go
> over the window edge... I can't seem to find the code though. I'll have to
> meditate on it.
Since the bg color rendering thing really is only a problem in non-w3
usage of w3 rendering functions, would it be reasonable to just add
lots of spaces to all the lines returned by `w3-region'? That is,
Gnus would let w3 parse the html, and then it would "fill out" the
buffer returned so that they are filled to the width of the window
with spaces?
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-19 2:12 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 1998-11-19 11:26 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-19 13:21 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-20 2:07 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-11-19 11:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Since the bg color rendering thing really is only a problem in
> non-w3 usage of w3 rendering functions, would it be reasonable to
> just add lots of spaces to all the lines returned by `w3-region'?
> That is, Gnus would let w3 parse the html, and then it would "fill
> out" the buffer returned so that they are filled to the width of the
> window with spaces?
How would that work with different-size or proportional fonts?
--
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
You have an unusual magnetic personality. Don't walk too close to
metal objects which are not fastened down.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-19 11:26 ` Hrvoje Niksic
@ 1998-11-19 13:21 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-19 16:15 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-20 2:07 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: William M. Perry @ 1998-11-19 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
> > Since the bg color rendering thing really is only a problem in
> > non-w3 usage of w3 rendering functions, would it be reasonable to
> > just add lots of spaces to all the lines returned by `w3-region'?
> > That is, Gnus would let w3 parse the html, and then it would "fill
> > out" the buffer returned so that they are filled to the width of the
> > window with spaces?
>
> How would that work with different-size or proportional fonts?
It wouldn't. But with the new Emacs 20.x display engine, you might be
able to with the 'stretch' glyphs.
This probably wouldn't work anyway, since I explicitly set all the text
properties to be closed-ended so you won't get this type of bleeding. Or
maybe that is only at the end of a paragraph, I can't remember right now.
Might be worth some experimentation.
-Bill P.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-19 13:21 ` William M. Perry
@ 1998-11-19 16:15 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-19 18:35 ` William M. Perry
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-11-19 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
> This probably wouldn't work anyway, since I explicitly set all the
> text properties to be closed-ended
You mean open-ended, don't you?
--
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Idle RAM is the Devil's playground.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-19 16:15 ` Hrvoje Niksic
@ 1998-11-19 18:35 ` William M. Perry
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: William M. Perry @ 1998-11-19 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
> wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
>
> > This probably wouldn't work anyway, since I explicitly set all the
> > text properties to be closed-ended
>
> You mean open-ended, don't you?
Uh, yup. :)
-bp
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: text/html rendering with bg color is strange
1998-11-19 11:26 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-19 13:21 ` William M. Perry
@ 1998-11-20 2:07 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-11-20 2:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
> How would that work with different-size or proportional fonts?
Er, yes.
Well, one could switch on truncate-lines and just insert a gazillion
spaces. :-)
Let's not. :-)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1998-11-20 2:07 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
1998-11-02 13:09 text/html rendering with bg color is strange Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-17 0:44 ` Mike McEwan
1998-11-17 8:42 ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-17 15:03 ` Colin Rafferty
1998-11-17 16:44 ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-18 0:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-18 0:38 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-18 1:18 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-18 2:02 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-18 8:27 ` Kai.Grossjohann
1998-11-18 15:28 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-19 2:12 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
1998-11-19 11:26 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-19 13:21 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-19 16:15 ` Hrvoje Niksic
1998-11-19 18:35 ` William M. Perry
1998-11-20 2:07 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
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