Threading without References header?

Threading without References header?

[Kai Grossjohann]

There are some people who send me mail without any References header,
so Gnus can't really do threading right.

I use the following settings which at least sorts their articles
together with their "parents":

,-----
| (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers 1000)                           
| (setq gnus-thread-ignore-subject t)                          
| (setq gnus-summary-make-false-root 'empty)
`-----

I observe, though, that the fetch-old-headers mechanism doesn't work
for these references-less mails.  Ie I type 9 RET to enter a group and
if there is a references-less followup among these 9 articles, Gnus
doesn't fetch the parent.

Is there some magic that I can use to get what I want?  Or did I turn
of the feature with one of the variables above?

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Threading without References header?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

> I observe, though, that the fetch-old-headers mechanism doesn't work
> for these references-less mails.  Ie I type 9 RET to enter a group and
> if there is a references-less followup among these 9 articles, Gnus
> doesn't fetch the parent.

If there is no References line, then (by definition) there is no
parent.  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Threading without References header?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:
> 
> > I observe, though, that the fetch-old-headers mechanism doesn't work
> > for these references-less mails.  Ie I type 9 RET to enter a group and
> > if there is a references-less followup among these 9 articles, Gnus
> > doesn't fetch the parent.
> 
> If there is no References line, then (by definition) there is no
> parent.

Why can't Gnus use `In-Reply-Tp' for threading?

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Unspeakable horrors from outer space paralyze the living and
resurrect the dead!

Re: Threading without References header?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> > If there is no References line, then (by definition) there is no
> > parent.
> 
> Why can't Gnus use `In-Reply-Tp' for threading?

It does.  Whenever I say "References" I mean "References and
In-Reply-To".  Except in the cases where I don't mean that.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Threading without References header?

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:

  Lars> If there is no References line, then (by definition) there is
  Lars> no parent.

I'd like Gnus to perform magic :)  When generating a summary buffer
Gnus is smart enough to sort together articles with the same subject
but no reference thingy, assuming they're somehow related.  I like
that a lot.

However, by default this happens only if the two articles are both in
the summary buffer anyway.  WIBNI Gnus would do this even if it would
normally not present the article to me?

Here's the situation.

  - Nice: I write a mail.  I tick my own Gcc'd copy.  Somebody replies
    to the mail, but without references stuff.  I enter the group with
    the new article.  Gnus sorts my mail together with the reply,
    based on the fact that they have similar Subject lines (I guess).

  - Not nice: Same as above, but I mark my own copy as read.  Rest is
    same as above, but Gnus doesn't display my own copy in the summary
    at all when I enter the group with the reply in it.

I'd like Gnus to behave similar to the first case even in the second.
This ought to be possible by fetching old headers and searching them,
just like Gnus searches the ticked messages for one to sort together
with the reply.  You see, the `nice' case allows me to hit "T ^" for
the reply which will give me nice threading in the future.  But in the
`not nice' case I first have to hit "4 2 M-g" (say) to be able to do
that.

Of course, the best thing of all would be if Gnus would generate a
correct References header on its own, by reading the mail and seeing
which one it replies to!

Seriously, if there is a new mail, you can just strip the Re and make
it a child of the root of the thread you find with the subject.

I hope I explained my wish well enough to understand it.  Do you think
this would be nice to have?  Would it be difficult to do?  (Seems like
Gnus has got the old headers around anyway if I have set
gnus-fetch-old-headers to t so I like to think it wouldn't be too
difficult.)

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Threading without References header?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

>   - Not nice: Same as above, but I mark my own copy as read.  Rest is
>     same as above, but Gnus doesn't display my own copy in the summary
>     at all when I enter the group with the reply in it.
> 
> I'd like Gnus to behave similar to the first case even in the second.
> This ought to be possible by fetching old headers and searching them,
> just like Gnus searches the ticked messages for one to sort together
> with the reply.

So if you get one new message with the subject "hello", you want Gnus
to display all old articles that have a subject that is "hello"?
(Gnus has no way of knowing which of the messages is the "parent" of
the new message, so it has to be all or none.)  This is easy enough to
do, but I don't really think it's very useful.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Threading without References header?

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:

  Lars> So if you get one new message with the subject "hello", you
  Lars> want Gnus to display all old articles that have a subject that
  Lars> is "hello"?

Yes, please.  As an option.

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Threading without References header?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

>   Lars> So if you get one new message with the subject "hello", you
>   Lars> want Gnus to display all old articles that have a subject that
>   Lars> is "hello"?
> 
> Yes, please.  As an option.

I'm not really sure of the utility of this.  It would create rather
enormous (enourmos?  enourmous?) summary buffers...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Threading without References header?

[Paul Franklin]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes:

 > Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@ls6.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

 >>   Lars> So if you get one new message with the subject "hello", you
 >>   Lars> want Gnus to display all old articles that have a subject that
 >>   Lars> is "hello"?

 >> Yes, please.  As an option.

 > I'm not really sure of the utility of this.  It would create rather
 > enormous (enourmos?  enourmous?) summary buffers...

I would find it useful at times, though it certainly wouldn't be my
default.

What I would find more useful is something similar to
gnus-summary-refer-parent-article which would find things with
matching subjects.  Or maybe this could be done automatically when
there is no parent.  That seems like a nice default action, for those
of us with non-nil gnus-summary-make-false-root, comparing with
gnus-subject-equal.

Kai, would this make you happy?  After a ^, reparenting shouldn't be
that bad.

--Paul

Re: Threading without References header?

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Paul Franklin writes:

  Paul> What I would find more useful is something similar to
  Paul> gnus-summary-refer-parent-article which would find things with
  Paul> matching subjects.  Or maybe this could be done automatically
  Paul> when there is no parent.  That seems like a nice default
  Paul> action, for those of us with non-nil
  Paul> gnus-summary-make-false-root, comparing with
  Paul> gnus-subject-equal.

Right.  That's a good idea, too.  My problem is that I like to have my
mails in nice threads and some people send mail with neither a
References nor an In-Reply-To header.  For these mails I've got to
find the parent, and the only way to do that is to search for matching
subjects.

I'd be happy with a "display all messages with matching subject" key,
too.  Currently, I use gnus-glimpse for that.  (Nice thing that
gnus-summary-goto-article adds the article to the summary.)

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Threading without References header?

[Matt Simmons]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:
> Right.  That's a good idea, too.  My problem is that I like to have my
> mails in nice threads and some people send mail with neither a
> References nor an In-Reply-To header.  For these mails I've got to
> find the parent, and the only way to do that is to search for matching
> subjects.

It would also be nice, in situations like this, if you could have Gnus
automagically insert a references line between two articles.  That is,
if two articles belong in the same thread, but one of them (the reply)
doesn't include a references line, you could somehow point at both
articles and tell Gnus to put a references line in the reply so that
it would appear in the thread from then on...  Or is there already a
way to do this?

Matt

Re: Threading without References header?

[anonymous]

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Matt Simmons <simmonmt@cs.purdue.edu> writes:

> It would also be nice, in situations like this, if you could have Gnus
> automagically insert a references line between two articles.  That is,
> if two articles belong in the same thread, but one of them (the reply)
> doesn't include a references line, you could somehow point at both
> articles and tell Gnus to put a references line in the reply so that
> it would appear in the thread from then on...  Or is there already a
> way to do this?

/Summary buffer, C-h k T ^:/

T ^ runs the command gnus-summary-reparent-thread:

Make the current article child of the marked (or previous) article.

Note that the re-threading will only work if `gnus-thread-ignore-subject'
is non-nil or the Subject: of both articles are the same.


-- 
Mats L=F6fdahl                                + Voice: +1 (415) 424-4001
Advanced Technology Center, O/H1-52, B/254G +
Lockheed Martin Missiles and Space          + lofdahl@sag.space.lockheed.co=
m  
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